[Ibogaine] Francis to Preston

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Sat Jan 29 19:28:35 EST 2005


> >And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
is
> the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It's true you can write
anything
> you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
> meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
> what you're doing, guy, cause you've got the guts and that's what's
needed.<

I did not write this Francis, Nick did.

Francis, you did write as near as I can make out, >My point is simple and 
clear : If you are
using and are trying to " control the harm " Just say : I can't stop and
don't try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are seeking
for help. They could think : " that  Ibogaine thing  is not working .." when
Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.<

I'm not sure what you mean here. If I felt ibogaine "didn't work" or "is not 
working" for me, would I then be expected to keep quiet about it in case I 
scare off others who may want to try it? LOL, you're kidding, right?
But then, I never ever said ibogaine wasn't or working or did not work for 
me, did I?




Peace and love,
Preston Peet

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Explorations and Enigmas" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Garden" <GardenRestaurant at comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis to Preston


>
> Hi Preston !!
>
> I would had bet you will answer my E-Mail :-)
>
> You wrote :
>
>
>> >And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
> is
>> the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It's true you can write
> anything
>> you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
>> meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep 
>> doing
>> what you're doing, guy, cause you've got the guts and that's what's
> needed.<
>
> * # Thank you for your undestanding. I don't have guts, no more than
> everybody else, for sure  :-).
> What's excatly a meaninful way to take a stand to addiction, for you ?
> For me addiction is the contrary of  L I V E = E VI L.. .
> I am willing to take a bit of shit but not too much either.;-)
> " soft like a rose, but like a tiger when is a matter of principle"
>
> You wrote
>> Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of "I can't believe
>> someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use," or something
>> along these lines, and you take the position that by taking ibogaine 
>> there
>> is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
>> part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
>> listening to if it isn't "I want nothing to do with drugs now," or "my
> life
>> should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
>> think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do so,"
> again,
>> something along these lines.
>
>
> * #  No, No, No I never said that :-) You are distorting my writting, You
> are tryng to read in my mind something that is not there. but you covert
> smartly all this with a sort of disclosure ; " again,
>> something along these lines. " My point is simple and clear : If you are
> using and are trying to " control the harm " Just say : I can't stop and
> don't try to justify it. That is very confusing for people who are seeking
> for help. They could think : " that  Ibogaine thing  is not working .." 
> when
> Ibogaine is the only thing that could work for them.
>
> By the way , I don;t believe that the state should be allowed to force
> addicts to quit. This works only in totalitarian states. Mao Ste Tung 
> style.
> We live in  democraties and the interest of democraties is to promote the
> use of drugz.and alcohol and to destroy our values and  roots. You read it
> clear....
> Why ? I can answer this question in detail in another E-Mail if somebody 
> is
> interested.
>
>
> God bless
> Francis
>
>
>
>   (I mean, now you're defining this list for
>> crying out loud. Boy, you've got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I'm
>> talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about ibogaine
> than
>> what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
>> does that mean, "this is an ibogaine list, not heroin-excuses.net?" Did
> you
>> miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
>> would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
>> list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)
>
> :-) I was not talking particularly of you, but if you feel this was about
> you, I can't stop you.....
>>     I'm really tired of this conversation actually. I'm tired of reading
>> from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine aren't
> valid
>> and are somehow incorrect because I'm of the opinion that we can (and
>> should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as some
> others
>> want me/us to do so. I cannot say I'm sorry I'm not getting the same
> things
>> from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I'm not, not in the
>> slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from this here
> list
>> for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried 
>> ibogaine)
>> quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
>> should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
>> everything, I'm sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both about
> ibo
>> and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
>> experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to feeling
> a
>> lot of confusion about things in general.
>>     But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things in
> general
>> Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in himself to 
>> ever
>> say "my way or the highway," or "my way by force you unenlightened types"
>> nor "I know what's best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
>> wouldn't the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons," or anything
>> that remotely implies I have "THE" answer.
>>     I'm a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so much 
>> trouble
>> with the notion you appear to be promoting. I'd never ever come at people
>> the way you are, and figure I'd live in a sheltered community where
> everyone
>> else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
>> world and my place in it.
>>     But you're welcome to it. Just don't try to force me ever to your
> view.
>> You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you'd like, I don't
>> mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
>> living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do my part 
>> to
>> prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use that we
> are
>> all capable of loving and being loved and don't deserve jail.
>>     You do what you want.
>>
>> >What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
>> people that ibogaine attracts just want something that's going to take 
>> all
>> their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
> life
>> even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it's not impossible that 
>> could
>> happen but it is relatively unlikely.<
>>
>> What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume a hell 
>> of
> a
>> lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I've...
>> Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
>> Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly 
>> pointless.
>> You continue doing what you are, I'll do the same and stop wasting my
>> precious time arguing this with you.
>>
>> Peace and love,
>> Preston
>>
>> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>> mistaken for madness"
>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
>> Editor "Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> Civilizations,
>> Explorations and Enigmas" (due out Sept. 2005)
>> Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> Columnist New York Waste
>> Etc.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
>> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:03 AM
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes at yahoo.com]
>> >> Sent: 28 January 2005 01:32
>> >> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Francis.......... you're being a grouch ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Hi Nick, you haven't posted too much in the last year
>> >> but aren't you one of the people who might have a lot
>> >> of personal feelings about drug addiction due to one
>> >> of your family members being a junkie? I'm sorry I
>> >> don't remember if it was your son or your brother, but
>> >> there was someone in your family youve dosed with
>> >> ibogaine a lot of times and no matter what you tried
>> >> or wanted them to do they would not get clean.
>> >>
>> >> In spite of all your self awareness, isn't it possible
>> >> you might have a teeny little bit of anger at them?
>> >> ;-)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Hi Carla,
>> >
>> > Yes, it's true, my adoptive brother Ken has had a long term heroin
> problem
>> > in the past and in the late 90s I tried to help him with ibogaine.
>> > Currently, he claims to be clean but I have my doubts, personally. Yes,
> I
>> > did use to get very pissed off when I tried to communicate with him and
>
>> > felt
>> > I couldn't really get through to him. However, this doesn't really 
>> > drive
>> > me
>> > crazy or anything, though it does still upset me at times. I mean, long
>> > before he was a druggie he was spaced out and I learned to find people
>> > that
>> > could communicate with me and not just put it on him that HE had to
>> > change.
>> > Though for him, it's true I also think it would be fine if the
> government
>> > took a stronger stance. And, yeah, if it happened, he would ring me up
> and
>> > tell me they're being nazis or whatever.
>> >
>> > Really, to be honest, I feel like I've learned a lot from these
> dialogues
>> > about just where people who are coming toward ibogaine actually are in
>> > terms
>> > of coming towards getting off drugs. Now that ibogaine's getting bigger
> in
>> > the UK, I've people on at me daily to help them get it (I run a website
> on
>> > ibogaine). What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of
> the
>> > people that ibogaine attracts just want something that's going to take
> all
>> > their problems away without them having to move their whole position in
>> > life
>> > even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it's not impossible that
> could
>> > happen but it is relatively unlikely.
>> >
>> > Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it's only a few people that
> respond
>> > but basically all I have said is that I support the German government 
>> > in
>> > its
>> > moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like dragging people
> out
>> > of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this it's like,
> I'm
>> > a
>> > nazi or it's to do with the jews in the war or Christ knows what. To 
>> > me,
>> > to
>> > be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the psyche has to
>> > the
>> > idea of change. I see it when I'm doing therapist work all the time.
>> > People
>> > want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit 
>> > more
>> > rest at times anyway. Preston's there shaking his head so much it's
> about
>> > to
>> > fall off or something, yeah well that's life.
>> >
>> > And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man. Yeah, this
> is
>> > the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It's true you can write
>> > anything
>> > you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
>> > meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep
> doing
>> > what you're doing, guy, cause you've got the guts and that's what's
>> > needed.
>> >
>> > With love
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Am I wrong? I know Marc Emery used to deliver up these
>> >> 20 page rants about why junkies are sick and potheads
>> >> are healthy. Couldn't have had anything to do with his
>> >> son being a junkie ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Love to all, especially to everyone writing 15 angry
>> >> letters to the list each day! :-)
>> >>
>> >> Carla B
>> >>
>> >> --- The Garden <GardenRestaurant at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Nick!!
>> >> >               Your post generate a lot of turmoil
>> >> > :-)
>> >> > That all good, I mean this is free mailing list. You
>> >> > have few people
>> >> > who are
>> >> > acting like they own the list and want to control or
>> >> > censure everything
>> >> > that
>> >> > they don't like.
>> >> >
>> >> > To keep simple :I have made a small list of  taboo
>> >> > subjects:
>> >> >
>> >> > TTR subjects: when someone try to explain an addict
>> >> > how to Take Total
>> >> > Responsability for his own action.
>> >> > Spiritual subject : rejection by some of the
>> >> > contribuitors of anything
>> >> > relating to the spiritual realm.
>> >> > Help subjects: " don't try to help me , I am doing
>> >> > good, let me shoot my
>> >> > dope "
>> >> > AA and NA subjects: " thoses f......g  hugers"
>> >> > Character defects : " don't tell me I am selfish,
>> >> > dishonest, lazy...ect
>> >> > "
>> >> > Judgment : " nothing is wrong, nothing is bad.... "
>> >> > Restriction or control of drugs availability.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is the list   of hip subjects that will work to
>> >> > make new friends
>> >> > and
>> >> > eventualy get laid , if you are in New york area
>> >> >   You should seriously take in consideration this
>> >> > bag of tools
>> >> > Drugz
>> >> > Music ( avoid classical and religious )
>> >> > Movies
>> >> > How much I use to shoot
>> >> > Self justification
>> >> > You scrach my back, I scrach your back
>> >> > Flattery
>> >> > Drugz pop culture.
>> >> > Atheism
>> >> > Outrage to the hypocrisy of various institutions and
>> >> > organizations,
>> >> > specialy
>> >> > religious.
>> >> >
>> >> > God bless
>> >> > Francis
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
>> >> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> >> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:33 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > Nick wrote >Then I thought about this dialogue for
>> >> > while, and whether
>> >> > > I'm
>> >> > > like
>> >> > > totally off for writing like this, and I realized
>> >> > I'm totally fine with
>> >> > it.
>> >> > > If the German government wants to push addicts who
>> >> > are fucking up a bit
>> >> > > harder, I think it's ok. That's my position.<
>> >> > >
>> >> > > And I still ask, so how do you feel about someone
>> >> > else who feels
>> >> > completely
>> >> > > opposite to you forcing you, or pushing you
>> >> > towards their viewpoint by
>> >> > > force? Is that cool too, or is it only cool to
>> >> > force other people to
>> >> > > your
>> >> > > viewpoint Nick?
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Peace and love,
>> >> > > Preston Peet
>> >> > >
>> >> > > "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
>> >> > enlightenment is
>> >> > > often
>> >> > > mistaken for madness"
>> >> > > Richard Davenport-Hines
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
>> >> > > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> >> > > Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation
>> >> > Guide to Drugs"
>> >> > > Editor "Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide
>> >> > to Ancient
>> >> > Civilizations,
>> >> > > Explorations and Enigmas" (due out Sept. 2005)
>> >> > > Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> >> > > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> >> > > Columnist New York Waste
>> >> > > Etc.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
>> >> > > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> >> > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:27 AM
>> >> > > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> > >>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
>> >> > >>> Sent: 27 January 2005 00:35
>> >> > >>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary
>> >> > fascism
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>> Get your shit together and do it. Heroin's days
>> >> > are
>> >> > >>> numbered, man.<
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> I'm not taking heroin.
>> >> > >>> Though there have been a couple times over the
>> >> > last few years
>> >> > >>> where I have
>> >> > >>> relented and bought a bag or three, those times
>> >> > were extremely
>> >> > >>> few and far
>> >> > >>> between and are a while past now. Not a year
>> >> > yet, but over half at
>> >> > least,
>> >> > >>> probably closer to nine months or so since last
>> >> > time I did that.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>> If you find
>> >> > >>> these emails scarey then, fuck man, recognize
>> >> > that - you get scared
>> >> > >>> by
>> >> > >>> emails suggesting you're gonna be pushed into
>> >> > looking harder at
>> >> > >>> yourself. It
>> >> > >>> provokes a big reaction, look at that. You're an
>> >> > aware guy. Check it
>> >> > >>> out.<
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> You're missing the point Nick.
>> >> > >>> The scary thing about your emails is that you
>> >> > seem to be serious,
>> >> > >>> that you
>> >> > >>> support forcing other people to submit to your
>> >> > views by force. This
>> >> > >>> is
>> >> > >>> mostly scary to me because I'm just now
>> >> > discovering this, and now I'm
>> >> > >>> concerned because I don't know what I've
>> >> > divulged on list you may
>> >> > >>> have read
>> >> > >>> and will one day decide to rat me or someone
>> >> > else out over
>> >> > >>> because you think
>> >> > >>> it would do us good to have someone drag us out
>> >> > of our homes and
>> >> > >>> teach
>> >> > us
>> >> > >>> the better, or your way anyway. That's what
>> >> > scares me, not
>> >> > >>> looking harder at
>> >> > >>> myself. I don't have a single problem with that
>> >> > particular issue,
>> >> > >>> of looking
>> >> > >>> deep and hard within myself, and that you might
>> >> > think I do have
>> >> > >>> issue with
>> >> > >>> that is another thing that leaves me shaking my
>> >> > head, considering
>> >> > >>> just how
>> >> > >>> open I am and always have been about myself and
>> >> > my feelings and
>> >> > >>> emotions on
>> >> > >>> this list. The reaction is notr the looking
>> >> > inside myself, it's
>> >> > >>> you thinking
>> >> > >>> it's ok to force others to your way of living
>> >> > and thinking. That's a
>> >> > >>> terrible way to go through life in my opinion,
>> >> > and I'm glad I'm
>> >> > >>> not somehow
>> >> > >>> under your control. That's a fate I am glad I've
>> >> > so far escaped
>> >> > >>> and hope I
>> >> > >>> continue to do so for a long, long time.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Hi Preston,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Yeah, well, personally, I had a nice scream and
>> >> > shout for 10 minutes
>> >> > this
>> >> > >> morning. Then I thought about this dialogue for
>> >> > while, and whether I'm
>> >> > >> like
>> >> > >> totally off for writing like this, and I realized
>> >> > I'm totally fine
>> >> > >> with
>> >> > >> it.
>> >> > >> If the German government wants to push addicts
>> >> > who are fucking up a
>> >> > >> bit
>> >> > >> harder, I think it's ok. That's my position.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> love
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Nick
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> Peace and love,
>> >> > >>> Preston
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search
>> >> > for enlightenment is
>> >> > often
>> >> > >>> mistaken for madness"
>> >> > >>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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