[Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sat Jan 29 09:50:11 EST 2005
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: 29 January 2005 13:54
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
> >And hey, Francis, I like what you write. You have guts, man.
> Yeah, this is
> the IBOGAINE list, not heroin-excuses.net. It's true you can
> write anything
> you want on this list but if you want to take a stand on addiction in a
> meaningful way, then you have to be able to take a bit of shit. Keep doing
> what you're doing, guy, cause you've got the guts and that's
> what's needed.<
> Francis recently wrote some comment along the lines of "I can't believe
> someone who has taken ibogaine is still promoting drug use," or something
> along these lines, and you take the position that by taking
> ibogaine there
> is one and just one result expected or valid- all other responces on the
> part of the individual who took/takes ibogaine are not valid or worth
> listening to if it isn't "I want nothing to do with drugs now,"
> or "my life
> should now be an open book to all and sundry and they should behave and
> think like me or the state should be allowed to force them to do
> so," again,
I would be grateful if you could explain to me how I am saying these things!
I don't believe I have said such a thing. I think it would be great if you
could paraphrase your insights with something like "How I interpret what
Nick is saying is......" or "How I interpret what you are saying is...." Can
we please go for that? As it is, it seems to me you interpret what I'm
saying in any way that allows you to then critcize that interpretation and
insinuate I am somehow a fascist or whatever. I don't find this so exciting
really. And I don't think it does anything for meaningful communication.
Nothing that you have written above is anything that I have ever said, to
the best of my knowledge, and it certainly isn't my opinion.
> something along these lines. (I mean, now you're defining
> this list for
> crying out loud.
Well, I said it was the IBOGAINE list. I said it wasn't heroin-excuses.net.
Is this wrong?
Boy, you've got a lot of fucking nerve. How is what I'm
> talking about, or anyone else for that matter, any less about
> ibogaine than
> what you are or what you would like to discuss? I mean it, what the hell
> does that mean, "this is an ibogaine list, not
> heroin-excuses.net?" Did you
> miss the post about how I am not taking heroin? Even were I, so what? How
> would my discussing my thoughts about addiction, opiates and more on this
> list make it not about ibogaine- insert bad word here- ?)
> I'm really tired of this conversation actually. I'm tired of reading
> from you Nick that my reactions and my thoughts about ibogaine
> aren't valid
> and are somehow incorrect because I'm of the opinion that we can (and
> should) chose to use ibogaine as we will as individuals, not as
> some others
> want me/us to do so.
Well, I expect I would be tired of reading that too, had someone said it
repeatedly to me. But I haven't actually said it even once, as far as I'm
aware. Man, seems to me you just wanna argue with yourself or something.
I cannot say I'm sorry I'm not getting the
> same things
> from my ibogaine experiences that you are, because I'm not, not in the
> slightest. I did get (and am still getting, even in part from
> this here list
> for crying out loud- and for that matter was even before I tried
> quite a lot out of my experiences and am firmly of the opinion that it
> should be as available as any and all other drugs (though, as with
> everything, I'm sure I could find exceptions to this notion, both
> about ibo
> and about the other drugs), that it definitely was a very spiritual
> experience that gave me a lot of hope and clarity, and I admit to
> feeling a
> lot of confusion about things in general.
> But then, I will probably always feel confusion about things
> in general
> Nick, Francis and all. I am not someone who can find it in
> himself to ever
> say "my way or the highway," or "my way by force you unenlightened types"
> nor "I know what's best and wish everyone would do it my way because gee
> wouldn't the world be nice and happy when full of Prestons," or anything
> that remotely implies I have "THE" answer.
> I'm a pretty tolerant person Nick, which is why I have so
> much trouble
> with the notion you appear to be promoting. I'd never ever come at people
> the way you are, and figure I'd live in a sheltered community
> where everyone
> else is just like me or striving to be, too if I felt like you about the
> world and my place in it.
> But you're welcome to it. Just don't try to force me ever to
> your view.
> You can call me a junky or whatever to-you-derogatory you'd like, I don't
> mind. I will continue to be happily in love, writing and publishing and
> living and getting the most I can out of my life, helping to do
> my part to
> prove that no matter what drug or non-drug we each chose to use
> that we are
> all capable of loving and being loved and don't deserve jail.
> You do what you want.
Preston, I am NOT trying to upset you. That is not my intention. And I have
not suggested that you or anyone else should be sent to jail. I have spoken
of using ibogaine and rehab in a therapeutic community and of allowing
governments to coerce socially errant addicts into this mode of treatment.
I'm fine if you don't want to push your opinions out on people. For me, part
of my own development is that I am becoming more pro-active. I am becoming
more aware of how I can make change in the world and that is what I am
learning to do. And I am happy to take feedback. And I am aware that
sometimes good intentions in this area can sometimes change into
neo-fascism. But I am not saying you should be put in prison and I am not
forcing anyone to take my viewpoint. I am just writing emails, stating my
thoughts and opinions. I would be great if you could see that, then I'm sure
we could become closer.
> >What I see more and more is that a lot (by no means all) of the
> people that ibogaine attracts just want something that's going to take all
> their problems away without them having to move their whole
> position in life
> even one millimetre. Well, in my experience it's not impossible that could
> happen but it is relatively unlikely.<
> What I also get out of your writing is that you imply and assume
> a hell of a
> lot about other people with no justification whatsoever. I've...
> Ah, fuck it, this is ridiculous.
> Why am I bothering wasting my time on you Nick? This is utterly pointless.
> You continue doing what you are, I'll do the same and stop wasting my
> precious time arguing this with you.
> Peace and love,
> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness"
> Richard Davenport-Hines
More information about the Ibogaine