[Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Thu Jan 27 11:04:39 EST 2005


>And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with 
>addicts, hasn't the drug war proven anything to you?<

BINGO!
Well said.



Peace and love,
Preston

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Mysterious Roots- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Explorations and Enigmas" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: thethird at myway.com
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick



Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think about this whole thing. 
A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with genetics, so pretty 
much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather you might one day 
become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect on other times in 
history when people, just because they were born to certain people or 
practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from 'the enlightened 
community', lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can't say that I 
ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you can bet your 
ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing the world 
(even the Jewish people) a favor. It's interesting how Hitler had Jewish 
blood isn't it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by forcing 
that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself. I'm not 
saying you are the next Hitler, it's just that reading ! some of your posts 
I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime someone 
has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you have to 
seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their motives. 
Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by forcing 
other people to do something they don't want to do, you are wasting your 
time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really want 
help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a certain 
way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery, and the 
whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not take it 
away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as benevolent as 
that, but it helped.) I'm obviously not much of a history buff (or I would 
have come up with much better instances :) ), and maybe there are some cases 
which would show otherwise, but I can't imagine taking freedom away from a 
c! ertain 'type' of people as being in any way a positive thing. And that , 
out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me the most. I just 
don't get people who are so sure they have the right answers that they will 
actually bet someone else's life on it, which is what you do when you force 
someone else to do what you believe. I don't know, maybe you really think 
that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing them out into your 
world, but shouldn't you respect their personal freedom and decision to find 
their own path? And, when you say you are all for the German government 
getting harsh with addicts, hasn't the drug war proven anything to you? I 
know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting, at least to me, 
and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I don't agree with 
them. Damn, I didn't mean for this to be so long.




--- On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227 at tiscali.co.uk > wrote:

From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227 at tiscali.co.uk]
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick



-----Original Message-----
From: thethird at myway.com [mailto:thethird at myway.com]
Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick






Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

>>What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
>>don't you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who
>>don't want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the
>>Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be 
>>dragged
>>out of their homes and made to take part.

Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes 
and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do.
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some 
jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I 
have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know 
what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty 
obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the 
gritty details of your life a nd can't wait to feel that spiritual better 
than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that 
nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people 
who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they 
don't try to force people into that help, because it won't work unless that 
person wants to be helped.
You don't want people poking their noses into your private little thought 
processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because 
it is so addictive and you think it ruins people's lives?
No, because I'm pro-awareness. Heroin's a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs 
you out and blocks awareness, blocks development.
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to 
the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, 
but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life 
would be pretty shitty without it,
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, 
pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give 
both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher 
than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as 
they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their 
life.
Well, I don't agree. I think dragging people out of their homes is a far 
better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that 
you don't want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize 
who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it!
I've done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to 
have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn't because I 
got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I 
wanted this life to be about. If you can't be in someone else's head you 
can't know what they want or need, so don't you think it would be better to 
let people come to their own conclusions,
I'm sorry, but this just isn't my experience. A lot of people don't seem to 
have a clue what they actually need. They're stuck in repetitive patterns in 
life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to 
anything that doesn't theaten their image of themselves, few more so than 
addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to 
encourage them to look deeper in whatever way I can. I'm learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want 
to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best 
for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you 
are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the 
feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out 
of their homes thing). Of course it's hard to know what people are like from 
a few emails.
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my 
vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My 
energy is pro-active, that's how I am. About knowing how people are, for 
sure it's hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, 
something can happen!
love
Nick
Laura











No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com










No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com 




More information about the Ibogaine mailing list