[Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Thu Jan 27 10:40:54 EST 2005

I know it comforts you to make me out to be Hitler or something but actually
all I'm saying is that I think addiction is a drag and that for governments
to take a more pro-active stance against it is fine by me. There are now
much better tools to fight opiate addiction available and it is my belief
that it's fine to use them. Ibogaine detox backed up by 6 months in a
therapeutic community rehab, I think it would be a great start.

BTW, it is not relevant to me whether an addiction has a genetic root. It is
not about "blaming" someone because they are addicted to drugs and trying to
find reason for it (beyond the use of that in undoing the addiction). It is
about creating positive social change. A gene sequence might represent an
inherited trait, a predisposition to chemical dependence. That does not mean
you have to be like that forever. You have a choice. As a conscious
individual you can choose to go for change, or you can choose to stay with
your old position. You are not trapped by your DNA, unless of course you
choose to believe that.

with love


  -----Original Message-----
  From: thethird at myway.com [mailto:thethird at myway.com]
  Sent: 27 January 2005 15:12
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
  Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

                    Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think
about this whole thing. A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with
genetics, so pretty much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather
you might one day become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect
on other times in history when people, just because they were born to
certain people or practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from 'the
enlightened community', lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can't
say that I ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you
can bet your ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing
the world (even the Jewish people) a favor. It's interesting how Hitler had
Jewish blood isn't it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by
forcing that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself.
I'm not saying you are the next Hitler, it's just that reading some of y our
posts I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime
someone has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you
have to seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their
motives. Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by
forcing other people to do something they don't want to do, you are wasting
your time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really
want help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a
certain way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery,
and the whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not
take it away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as
benevolent as that, but it helped.) I'm obviously not much of a history buff
(or I would have come up with much better instances :) ), and maybe there
are some cases which would show otherwise, but I can't imagine taking
freedom away from a certain 'type' of pe ople as being in any way a positive
thing. And that, out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me
the most. I just don't get people who are so sure they have the right
answers that they will actually bet someone else's life on it, which is what
you do when you force someone else to do what you believe. I don't know,
maybe you really think that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing
them out into your world, but shouldn't you respect their personal freedom
and decision to find their own path? And, when you say you are all for the
German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn't the drug war proven
anything to you? I know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting,
at least to me, and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I
don't agree with them. Damn, I didn't mean for this to be so long.

                    --- On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
> wrote:

                      From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227 at tiscali.co.uk]
                      To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
                      Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000
                      Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: thethird at myway.com [mailto:thethird at myway.com]
                        Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11
                        To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
                        Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary

                                Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:

                                >>What about just being a general fucking
drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,
                                >>don't you agree it would be great to have
some social laws for people who
                                >>don't want to participate in life? OK, it
could be abused and Who make the
                                >>Rules Up and all that, but really I think
some people should just be dragged
                                >>out of their homes and made to take part.

                                Are you serious that you think people should
be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other
people feel they should do.

                                Yes! Where do you live?!

                                That sounds pretty serious. What if we only
get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to
really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy
people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug
addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get
off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can't wait to feel that
spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you
through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete
respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is
important that they don't try to force people into that help, because it
won't work unless that person wants to be helped.

                                You don't want people poking their noses
into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?

                                Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I
would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins
people's lives?

                                No, because I'm pro-awareness. Heroin's a
painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks

                                Everything we take acts like a drug in our
brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the
most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick
oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it,

                                This is true

                                and I truly believe that for some people,
because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic
immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their
quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should
be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to
decide how they want to live their life.

                                Well, I don't agree. I think dragging people
out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those
seedy little secrets that you don't want to reveal to the world out into
daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your
fears! Show yourself! Give it!

                                I've done a lot of things in my life that
some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am
thankful that they couldn't because I got a lot from those things, more
understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you
can't be in someone else's head you can't know what they want or need, so
don't you think it would be better to let people come to their own

                                I'm sorry, but this just isn't my
experience. A lot of people don't seem to have a clue what they actually
need. They're stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face
and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn't theaten
their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and
round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper in
whatever way I can. I'm learning.

                                and then, if you like to help people, wait
until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed
to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so
positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people,
but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little
forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course
it's hard to know what people are like from a few emails.

                                I like people. I learn from people. And if
someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful
feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that's how I am. About
knowing how people are, for sure it's hard from emails. Emails are a bit
limited generally but, still, something can happen!




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