[Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

thethird at myway.com thethird at myway.com
Thu Jan 27 10:12:18 EST 2005


Wow Nick, I keep feeling a bit stunned when I think about this whole thing. A lot of doctors think that addiction has to do with genetics, so pretty much whomever you were born to is a factor in weather you might one day become addicted to drugs and reading these posts I reflect on other times in history when people, just because they were born to certain people or practiced a certain religion were forced to hide from 'the enlightened community', lest they be dragged away from their homes. I can't say that I ever looked at the Holocaust as an enlightened society, but you can bet your ass that they thought they were. They thought they were doing the world (even the Jewish people) a favor. It's interesting how Hitler had Jewish blood isn't it, like he hated that part of himself so much that by forcing that part of society to go away, he could feel better about himself. I'm not saying you are the next Hitler, it's just that reading some of your posts I am reminded of that time in history. I would think that anytime someone has a desire to force other people into becoming something else, you have to seriously question if there is in fact any altruism in their motives. Finding out what life is all about will last a lifetime, and by forcing other people to do something they don't want to do, you are wasting your time and energy, which you could spend on yourself or people who really want help. The only time I can think of when forcing people to behave a certain way turned out for the better was forcing people to give up slavery, and the whole purpose of that was to GIVE freedom to people (slaves) not take it away. (Of course the reasons for the war were not quite as benevolent as that, but it helped.) I'm obviously not much of a history buff (or I would have come up with much better instances :) ), and maybe there are some cases which would show otherwise, but I can't imagine taking freedom away from a certain 'type' of people as being in any way a positive thing. And that, out of all of the things you implied, is what depressed me the most. I just don't get people who are so sure they have the right answers that they will actually bet someone else's life on it, which is what you do when you force someone else to do what you believe. I don't know, maybe you really think that you are giving addicts more freedom by forcing them out into your world, but shouldn't you respect their personal freedom and decision to find their own path? And, when you say you are all for the German government getting harsh with addicts, hasn't the drug war proven anything to you? I know all this is off topic, but it is pretty interesting, at least to me, and I appreciate you voicing your beliefs even though I don't agree with them. Damn, I didn't mean for this to be so long.--- On Wed 01/26, Nick Sandberg < nick227 at tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto: nick227 at tiscali.co.uk]To: ibogaine at mindvox.comDate: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0000Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

-----Original Message-----From: thethird at myway.com [mailto:thethird at myway.com]Sent: 26 January 2005 17:11To: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism:Nick

Hey Nick, I read a post where you wrote:>>What about just being a general fucking drag, junkie or otherwise? I mean,>>don't you agree it would be great to have some social laws for people who>>don't want to participate in life? OK, it could be abused and Who make the>>Rules Up and all that, but really I think some people should just be dragged>>out of their homes and made to take part.Are you serious that you think people should be forced out of their homes and then forced into doing things that other people feel they should do. 
Yes! Where do you live?!
That sounds pretty serious. What if we only get one life and here is some jerk telling us what he thinks we should do to really get the most of it. I have to say that one of my pet peeves is nosy people who feel that they know what is best for everyone else. Being a drug addict it becomes pretty obvious that there is no shortage of people who get off hearing all the gritty details of your life a nd can't wait to feel that spiritual better than thouness when they take you by the hand and guide you through all that nastiness and bring you into the light. I have complete respect for people who spend time helping other people, but I think it is important that they don't try to force people into that help, because it won't work unless that person wants to be helped. 
You don't want people poking their noses into your private little thought processes! Why not? What are you hiding?
Also when you said you are anti-heroin, I would like to ask you why. Because it is so addictive and you think it ruins people's lives? 
No, because I'm pro-awareness. Heroin's a painkiller, an analgesic. It numbs you out and blocks awareness, blocks development. 
Everything we take acts like a drug in our brains, from the food we eat to the air we breathe. Oxygen is probably the most addictive thing out there, but nobody thinks about trying to kick oxygen because our quality of life would be pretty shitty without it, 
This is true
and I truly believe that for some people, because of a chemical imbalance, pain reasons, lack of awareness, chronic immaturity, laziness (just to give both sides) or whatever, that their quality of life with opiates is higher than without it. All in all it should be up to the individual, as long as they are not hurting any one else, to decide how they want to live their life. 
Well, I don't agree. I think dragging people out of their homes is a far better option. Really, I mean it. Drag all those seedy little secrets that you don't want to reveal to the world out into daylight and get to recognize who you really are. Why not? Confront your fears! Show yourself! Give it! 
I've done a lot of things in my life that some people would have loved to have the control to stop me, but I am thankful that they couldn't because I got a lot from those things, more understanding about myself and what I wanted this life to be about. If you can't be in someone else's head you can't know what they want or need, so don't you think it would be better to let people come to their own conclusions, 
I'm sorry, but this just isn't my experience. A lot of people don't seem to have a clue what they actually need. They're stuck in repetitive patterns in life, trying to maintain face and hold down feelings, desperate to cling to anything that doesn't theaten their image of themselves, few more so than addicts. They just go round and round, and if they come past me I try to encourage them to look deeper in whatever way I can. I'm learning.
and then, if you like to help people, wait until they decide what they want to change, and then help them, as opposed to forcing what you think is best for them upon them? You always seem so positive and up-beat that I think you are probably great at helping people, but from some of your posts I got the feeling that you could be a little forceful (the whole dragging people out of their homes thing). Of course it's hard to know what people are like from a few emails. 
I like people. I learn from people. And if someone is coming into my vicinity who I think could benefit from useful feedback, then I give it. My energy is pro-active, that's how I am. About knowing how people are, for sure it's hard from emails. Emails are a bit limited generally but, still, something can happen!


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No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
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