[Ibogaine] hokey pokey do you want to dance ?!

The Garden GardenRestaurant at comcast.net
Wed Jan 26 14:44:45 EST 2005


Hi Preston !!

"Hokey pokey ice cream" I like your title.
 " Hokey Pokey" is a participation dance from the 50 's.
 I guess that when you dance long enought you will get the ice cream.;-)

I dance a lot in the A's Room and the promesses are actualy  true .
Personaly, I don't believe in my uniqueness and the rooms are a good world
playground where I can learn how to relate to people of all venues. I am
confortable with anyone and anywhere now, because I see what we have in
commun. Honestly, in my humble opinion NA or AA are incredible tools for
change.
 I was a very individualist man, free like the wind, rebellious,a looner
with no rules, but with a lot  secrets flaws of character. I hit my botton
and crash psycologicly around 30 something.Paradoxaly, I crash when I had
everything I had dreamt of and fought for..... I was living in a wonderful
place on a lake in Swiss , in a small tax heaven , sport cars bla..bla..
bla.. The all nine yards....


I was lonely, empty, suicidal.My uniquiness was separating me from everybody
and everything in my life. I felt dis-ease in my own skin.
Thank good i make it throught!!
 The best thing I ever done was to participate in  group therapy where I
learnt more from the pain, the self doubt, the suffering of a 15 years old
kid who needed a 10 inches long spoon to feed himself while in a wellchair.
He was a teenager and wanted , what all the teenager wants.Get love,
understanding and  get laid. This kid teach me more, about my selfishness,
my pseudo uniqueness,  than 20 books on the subject !!
Things like this can't be told you have to live it. Throught your personal
experience as the member of a group where lies and B....shit are left
outside. AA and NA are designed for this too..

Love you, Man
Francis

PS I don't forget your physical pain , this E_mail was refering
infortunately to psicologycal pain.

Original Message ----- 
From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hokey pokey icecream? LOL!


> Francis asked >What matter what you do or where you go : it'still your
best
> thinking that
> bring you where ever you are ?/!
> So , I do you know what is your best thinking ?
> The one who bring you in the rooms or the one who keep you out of the
rooms<
>
> The one who keeps me out of rooms where people tell me I have to comform
to
> a different way of doing things or I'm never going to be happy. As was the
> message I repeatedly got from most groups no matter what. The only "group"
I
> ever attended this didn't happen with was the loosely meeting ibo group
here
> in NYC, but it wasn't very exciting and I went just twice due to
irritation
> right away with another person there in attendence. Plus, it turned out to
> be just a meeting of people in a park to chat about stuff, and ended up
with
> me feeling like I should be doing something else instead of sitting and
> chatting.
>     You are correct though Francis, that it is my "best thinking" that
keeps
> me where I am and takes me where I go. And I'm not complaining about it at
> all- I'm usually when posting sad or depressed note here just venting and
> trying to get that sort of feeling out of me and onto paper/email/into
print
> somehow, as that helps me cope. Plus, this here list is a group of sorts
too
> come to think of it, and this one I do enjoy, a lot. So I do get something
> out of some group situations, just not sitting in rooms with lots of other
> people.
>     Kirsty nailed it with her reminder that there's the pain issue too
that
> some seem to be ignoring, or brushing off. That's an irritating thing-
when
> folk (which hasn't actually happened here, yet, or at least, not too much)
> tell me there are great ways to get through life without pain killers and
to
> deal with pain without pain killers and etc, etc. Great, I'm happy for
those
> who can and do make it through life in pain without pain killers, but I
> don't feel like being one of them, nor with trying to cope with this sort
of
> non-stop pain and anguish without pain killers. Yuck. Doesn't appeal to me
> at all.
>     But that all said, the hoky pokey icecream does sound appealing, and I
> want some- NOW! That might turn myself around, 'cause I know that what
it's
> all about. Right?
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness"
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirsty Sutherland" <captkirk at kol.co.nz>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:12 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Preston cynicism, ibogaine, and hokey pokey
> icecream......
>
>
> >I think people are missing the main point here........what about the
> >pain???
> > And I argue (again) that since there IS no right and no wrong... then
> > nobody
> > CAN be right!!!
> > (And by the way, I'm always right, even when I'm wrong, I am right.)
> > Koiky
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant at comcast.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2005 7:03 p.m.
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston cynicism and ibogaine
> >
> > Hi Preston !!
> >
> > You wrote :
> >
> > " While as it was said to
> > me in a variety of -A rooms at a variety of times, "it was your own best
> > thinking that got you here," well, I ain't still in those rooms, and
I've
> > been making something of myself beyond a conniving street denizen
despite
> > my
> > need for and use of (for a long, long time now pretty much almost always
> > legal) opiates. So to wrap it up, nope, don't want off drugs, just to
have
> > the option of having ibogaine to drastically reset the habit.
> >    Any thoughts anyone?"
> >
> > They said :  "it was your own best thinking that got you here,"
> > When you are there, in the A's rooms and when you are not in the rooms
> > (using  ) it still your
> > own best thinking that keep you out-there.
> >
> > What matter what you do or where you go : it'still your best thinking
that
> > bring you where ever you are ?/!
> > So , I do you know what is your best thinking ?
> > The one who bring you in the rooms or the one who keep you out of the
> > rooms
> > ?/!
> >
> > Maybee you should quit or maybee not ?/! Using or thinking,. you never
> > don't know .
> > You are a lot smarter than most of people and you should figure out .
> > I know that it take a lot of humility to accept to be told what to do,
> > (even
> > when people are right.)specialy when you are young, sensible, smart and
> > confronted  closely  ( too early ) with the possibility of your own
death.
> >
> > In my humble opinion : addiction keep you away from the regular , normal
> > times and rythm of passage in  life.
> >
> > We are like lobter, we have to change our hard shell regularly if we
want
> > to
> > grow.When the lobster change her hard shell she feel very vunerable for
a
> > while but not for ever. She don't rationalize and just do her job on
going
> > on with life ..stronger than before.Each one of us have to go throught
> > this..... Using or not using , soon or later. ... but always.
> > Death could be a premature exit to avoid the change of season; but it's
> > not
> > a good idea to trought away the hard shell with the lobster. I believe
in
> > reeincarnation, so I am fuck any way :-)
> > Change sucks....... so do not changing. It's your call !
> >
> > Love you, Man
> > Francis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
> >
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>     Nick asked,
> >>
> >> >Correct me if I'm wrong here - basically you
> >> want to get off and stay off drugs, but you want to do it on your own
> >> terms.<
> >>
> >> No Nick, getting off and staying off drugs isn't really my goal at all,
> > not
> >> at this time anyway. I have no desire whatsoever to go through surgery.
> >> Until I do find something else that helps me cope with being inside
such
> >> constantly angry nerve endings, I'll continue to rely on drugs to
assist
> > me
> >> with that coping. At the moment, despite moments of panic because I
> >> occasionally do too many and leave myself short, I've been able to
resist
> >> going to the streets to cop to suppliment my intake. It's not always
fun
> > or
> >> easy being addicted though, so I'd like the option of trying something
> > along
> >> the lines of ibogaine maintenence. Some might not personally agree with
> > this
> >> idea, but personally? I think that if I'm going to be using opiates
(the
> >> physically safest, least toxic pain killers I've ever come across, not
to
> >> mention most effective) for a while to come, I'd like to have the
option
> > of
> >> what's been described to me as "resetting." Where I can take a dose,
kill
> > my
> >> tolerance and habit, bring it back down to much smaller levels, and if
I
> >> need to do it again at some point down the road, by golly I want to be
> > able
> >> to do just that without being told "you only get so many chances or you
> >> gotta find a new source." (Of course, this is assuming I have a source,
> > and
> >> at the moment- listening feds?- there ain't no source. I'm thinking of
> >> possibilities for down the road, because at the moment there ain't no
> > source
> >> to be found and I could use one. Got it Feds who might still be
> >> listening/reading?)
> >>     So with the "no source" thing in mind, remember please that I'm
> >> mainly
> >> just venting, not addressing this at anyone in particular, although I
> > admit
> >> I am basing some of my statements on certain comments said to me at
> >> different times by this and that friend. But yes Nick, I do want to do
> >> things on my own terms. I'm so freakin' sick of being told I have to
> > conform
> >> to this or that label, that I'm this or that because I do or don't, use
> >> or
> >> don't use, vote or don't vote, hate or don't, etc. While as it was said
> >> to
> >> me in a variety of -A rooms at a variety of times, "it was your own
best
> >> thinking that got you here," well, I ain't still in those rooms, and
I've
> >> been making something of myself beyond a conniving street denizen
despite
> > my
> >> need for and use of (for a long, long time now pretty much almost
always
> >> legal) opiates. So to wrap it up, nope, don't want off drugs, just to
> >> have
> >> the option of having ibogaine to drastically reset the habit.
> >>     Any thoughts anyone?
> >>
> >> Peace and love,
> >> Preston
> >>
> >> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
> >> mistaken for madness"
> >> Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> >> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> >> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> Columnist New York Waste
> >> Etc.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
> >> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:56 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
> >> >> Sent: 25 January 2005 00:10
> >> >> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >> >> Subject: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> dh wrote, in reply to the notion that ibogaine is an anti-cynicism
> >> >> substance:
> >> >>
> >> >> >100%, Pure, unadulterated... Bullshit.
> >> >>
> >> >> no additives or preservatives, either.
> >> >>
> >> >> Virgin Bullshit.<
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, to pipe up here, while I might not put it quite as harshly,
> > feeling
> >> >> slightly more huggy this evening than snarly, I gotta agree with
> >> >> dh here, as
> >> >> this is pretty much bologna.
> >> >> I was still and am still quite the freakin cynic, despite two
> >> >> times taking
> >> >> ibogaine (although someone told me the second time didn't really
> >> >> count,
> >> >> because even though I was trying to get another treatment, someone
> >> >> apparently thought I didn't really know what I needed and so
> >> >> didn't supply
> >> >> quite the amount I thought I was getting so it was considered not a
> >> >> treatment per se but rather a psychospiritual effort. While I did
> >> >> use that
> >> >> term when expressing my desire to go again so soon after the
> >> >> first time, I
> >> >> also noted my desire to further explore issues I'd touched on first
> > time
> >> >> round, but I digress- let me get back to the cynism). Things were
> >> >> nice and
> >> >> glowy when I first did ibogaine, I mean immediately afterwards,
> >> >> but I knew
> >> >> even then that wouldn't last and felt weirded out by that. I've not
> >> >> yet
> >> >> admitted this publicly I don't think, not to anyone but V I don't
> >> >> think, but
> >> >> as soon as I came out of the nausea and dizziness, I was very
> >> >> depressed the
> >> >> second time 'round, and truly felt that I had just completely
negated
> > the
> >> >> first experience, right there. As soon as I was able to sit up,
> >> >> in less than
> >> >> 12 hours, (which was another signal to me that something wasn't
> >> >> quite right,
> >> >> that I hadn't taken the amount I'd expected to be taking), I felt
> >> >> that I had
> >> >> not gotten in nearly as far as I'd needed and expressed the desire
to
> > do,
> >> >> that I hadn't this time been to the holodeck, not seen a single
> >> >> vision, not
> >> >> had much of any experience the second time round but feeling ill and
> >> >> disappointed and in a very black mood when finished (and I want
> >> >> to go again
> >> >> sometime- what am I thinking? LOL).
> >> >>     I feel personally that a provider, depending upon the situation
> >> >> actually, but a provider on the black market, shouldn't necessarily
be
> >> >> abritrary about how they supply those who want to buy their
> >> >> wares. I would
> >> >> feel almost resentful if a provider tells me things along the
> >> >> lines of, "we
> >> >> don't want to treat people more than twice, and if it doesn't work
in
> > two
> >> >> times we're going to recommend they go elsewhere, out of their own
> >> >> environment, to do it again, with someone else like Sara perhaps, or
> > the
> >> >> folk in Mexico." Now, I'm not at all saying there's anything even
> >> >> remotely
> >> >> wrong with taking ibogaine in Mexico or with Sara- I'd love to take
it
> > at
> >> >> Sara's someday actually. But I don't want to be told "it's this way,
> > our
> >> >> way, or no way at all." I don't want to be told that I must go
> >> >> see this or
> >> >> that psych-type person for counseling, I don't want to be expected
at
> >> >> meetings, I don't want to be told it's too soon/toolate/not
> >> >> enough/etc.
> > I
> >> >> want to be able to obtain the stuff and do it as I and my
> >> >> significant other
> >> >> think most beneficial, for whatever reason and in whatever
> >> >> fashion the two
> >> >> of us think most fit. T hat's the best way I think. I don't want
> > someone
> >> >> judging from outside me how much I'd need beyond, "he's this
> >> >> heavy so this
> >> >> much is needed for him to really, really do the three day thing,"
> >> >> and that's
> >> >> about it. I don't want someone obtaining this stuff for me and at
> >> >> the same
> >> >> time saying things along the lines of, "I think he needs just
> >> >> this or that
> >> >> amount for this or that reason." Somehow, while I understand where
> >> >> it's
> >> >> coming from and that that is a good place and very well meant, this
> > just
> >> >> doesn't strike me as the very best or more beneficial way for me
> >> >> to do this
> >> >> stuff.
> >> >>     I sincerely hope I've not screwed my chances for the future by
> > laying
> >> >> out my feelings in this fashion on the public list, but I've had
these
> >> >> thoughts for a while and Dave sorta shook them loose with his post.
> >> >>     (I'm blaming you dh, you and my disease- you know I can't
> >> >> help myself,
> >> >> I'm not responsible, I'm sick, a really reaeealy sicky sicko,
> >> >> probably even
> >> >> a somewhat pinko sicko, in need of treatment 'cause damn it I'm
> >> >> freakin all
> >> >> out ILL! Or something.)
> >> >>     Seriously, sorry to vent on you all. Here's wishing everyone a
> >> >> good
> >> >> evening, except for those who might not want me to do that, to be
> >> >> all nice
> >> >> and stuff, and would rather I be hostile or pessimistic or whatever
is
> >> >> anti-huggy and peaceful and such.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Peace and love,
> >> >> Preston
> >> >
> >> > Hey Preston,
> >> >
> >> > Good to hear of your feelings. Correct me if I'm wrong here -
basically
> >> > you
> >> > want to get off and stay off drugs, but you want to do it on your own
> >> > terms.
> >> > Is this right?
> >> >
> >> > Nick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> > often
> >> >> mistaken for madness"
> >> >> Richard Davenport-Hines
> >> >>
> >> >> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> >> >> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> >> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> >> >> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >> >> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> >> Columnist New York Waste
> >> >> Etc.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "D H" <dave at phantom.com>
> >> >> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:31 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  free
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>>> And, frankly, if you take ibogaine and you're still cynical
> >>>about
> >> >> >>>> life, then
> >> >> >>>> it's not working for you. Ibogaine is 100% anti-cynicism -
> >>>really!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 100%, Pure, unadulterated... Bullshit.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > no additives or preservatives, either.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Virgin Bullshit.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _.dh
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> /]=---------------------------------------------------------------
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