[Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Kirsty Sutherland captkirk at kol.co.nz
Wed Jan 26 05:18:15 EST 2005

I have to ask then, if people with major pain problems shouldn't take
opiates to help, then what should they do?  I've suffered pain....I've
swallowed a lot of pills, opiate and non-opiate, I've meditated (trust me,
unless you are a novice, it's bluddy hard when you're in pain, try doing it
when you're hangin'), I've had reiki, I've learnt reiki.... massage is
pretty bluddy amazing, but I can't afford it when I need it.....
Which leaves??????????????????????????????????????????
Pure smack!  Yehhhhhhh!!!  Addiction, yes, damage to other organs? No.
Interested to hear what else there is..............

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227 at tiscali.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2005 10:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine

Hi Preston,

Sorry if I come on a bit haughty, it's not my intention. I don't know it all
by a long shot. It's just that I used a lot of ibogaine a few years ago, and
it showed me my path to change, and now it would be frustrating for me to
interract with people but not communicate to them what I know. OK, so that's
my trip but I'm going to keep laying it on people because that is what I do.
And I'm going to keep learning. I don't like to see people using opiates,
except for temporary pain control in crisis situations. That's my trip, man.
I wanna change the fucking world. Personally, if Ekki wants to complain
about the German government trying to fence addicts in, well, to me, it's
fair enough what they do. Freedom of speech and action is one thing, but if
you have to keep stuffing the world's most powerful painkiller into you
day-in-day-out simply to maintain your perspective on the world, then I
think it's fine the world pushes you to look deeper. I think it's totally
fine. I'm not advocating that junkies are made social scapegoats, that they
are victimized, but that they're pushed to look a little deeper, to go for
awareness, I think that's fine. In fact I think it's great and a sign of
rising world awareness. We are One, and at some point we all have to start
living that.

That's where I am. I'm pro-ibogaine and anti-heroin. I'm pro-awareness and
anti-numbing out. That's my position, and I am happy if you want to try and
shift me from it.

To me, when the Bwiti say "Break open the Head" what they mean is - the
stranglehold of your personal perspective on the world is broken. You have
the choice to let other people in. You have the choice to let healing in.
You no longer have the sole option of choosing "I do this, not that. I hang
out with these guys and not these. THIS is who I am, and not this." The
whole fencing-in of the personal perspective is broken by the drug. For me,
I believe that's why they take it in Africa. For sure, it happened to me
when I took it in London, and in the Cameroun.

I'm not talking about you personally here, it's general.

Anyway, that's my position. I apologize if it seems haughty to you or anyone
else but this is my position. Che sera.

With love


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227 at tiscali.co.uk]
> Sent: 25 January 2005 23:39
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
> > Sent: 25 January 2005 22:07
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] cynicism and ibogaine
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >     Nick asked,
> >
> > >Correct me if I'm wrong here - basically you
> > want to get off and stay off drugs, but you want to do it on your own
> > terms.<
> >
> > No Nick, getting off and staying off drugs isn't really my goal
> > at all, not
> > at this time anyway. I have no desire whatsoever to go through surgery.
> > Until I do find something else that helps me cope with being inside such
> > constantly angry nerve endings, I'll continue to rely on drugs to
> > assist me
> > with that coping. At the moment, despite moments of panic because I
> > occasionally do too many and leave myself short, I've been able
> to resist
> > going to the streets to cop to suppliment my intake. It's not
> > always fun or
> > easy being addicted though, so I'd like the option of trying
> > something along
> > the lines of ibogaine maintenence. Some might not personally
> > agree with this
> > idea, but personally? I think that if I'm going to be using opiates (the
> > physically safest, least toxic pain killers I've ever come
> across, not to
> > mention most effective) for a while to come, I'd like to have the
> > option of
> > what's been described to me as "resetting." Where I can take a
> > dose, kill my
> > tolerance and habit, bring it back down to much smaller levels, and if I
> > need to do it again at some point down the road, by golly I want
> > to be able
> > to do just that without being told "you only get so many chances or you
> > gotta find a new source." (Of course, this is assuming I have a
> > source, and
> > at the moment- listening feds?- there ain't no source. I'm thinking of
> > possibilities for down the road, because at the moment there
> > ain't no source
> > to be found and I could use one. Got it Feds who might still be
> > listening/reading?)
> >     So with the "no source" thing in mind, remember please that
> > I'm mainly
> > just venting, not addressing this at anyone in particular,
> > although I admit
> > I am basing some of my statements on certain comments said to me at
> > different times by this and that friend. But yes Nick, I do want to do
> > things on my own terms. I'm so freakin' sick of being told I have
> > to conform
> > to this or that label, that I'm this or that because I do or
> > don't, use or
> > don't use, vote or don't vote, hate or don't, etc. While as it
> > was said to
> > me in a variety of -A rooms at a variety of times, "it was your own best
> > thinking that got you here," well, I ain't still in those
> rooms, and I've
> > been making something of myself beyond a conniving street denizen
> > despite my
> > need for and use of (for a long, long time now pretty much almost always
> > legal) opiates. So to wrap it up, nope, don't want off drugs,
> > just to have
> > the option of having ibogaine to drastically reset the habit.
> >     Any thoughts anyone?
> >
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston
> >
> Hey Preston,
> I'd just point out that the human body and mind are just machines
> at the end
> of the day. Your personality is unique in that everything is unique, but
> it's just a structure. And, research has shown, if you put that
> personality
> through the processes of therapy it becomes a lot more efficient - a lot
> calmer and happier, more capable of getting its needs met directly, a lot
> more grounded. In early life, people develop a fascination with proving to
> themselves their own uniqueness, and that's fine, but it usually wears off
> with advancing years and a more practical approach develops. What
> I'm try to
> say is....does it really matter so much what you do with therapy, ibogaine
> or whatever? That you have to conform to someone else's protocol - is it
> really such a big deal? I mean, where do you have a way of evaluating
> something if you haven't tried it anyway? Can you really tell if something
> won't work for you if you don't go fully into it, just to see, without a
> pre-conceived attitude or cynicism? Just seems to me you might be missing
> out. Having been a closed individual, determined to maintain my
> own sense of
> uniqueness, at the cost of any meaningful development, for years, I really
> appreciate the openness I find these days from a few years of
> doing groups,
> ibogaine, whatever. Coming out of the vaulted palace of the ego, with its
> preconceptions of who I am, to test these beliefs in the wider
> world, it's a
> gift, man, the greatest journey there is.
> with love
> Nick
> > "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> > mistaken for madness"
> > Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> > ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> > Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> >
> /]=---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------=[/

 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004

More information about the Ibogaine mailing list