[Ibogaine] free

m.finman mafinman at optonline.net
Tue Jan 25 00:21:18 EST 2005


Being  skeptical or cautious of things are varying degrees of deciding that 
things are safe or not.  Being cautious, using past experiences, aquired 
facts and using intuition to make a right decision for oneself is everyday 
stuff.  I feel being  skeptical all the time without obtaining enough facts 
on a case by case basis, or not using ones intuition  because one is coming 
from a wounded place and can't (won't) examine those things, can  wind up 
becoming cynical. This is not unlike the same formula that is responsible 
for bigotry and rascism.  Being condescending is yet another defense 
mechanism.  However, it is the abusive edge here that I agree , is 
inappropriate and gets old.  There is, I feel, a hugh difference between 
being sharp and crass while using wit and sarcasm versus being cynicial and 
condescending .  But then this is just my opinion and you know what they say 
about opinions.
                Martee
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] free


> Hi Vector,
>
> Well, personally I found him a bit abusive and a bit of a drag so I wrote
> him a few things and now it seems he's run off. I've no problem with Ken
> being on the list, and even if I did have it's got nothing to do with me 
> who
> stays and who goes. The way I see it, Ken's just doing his trip.
>
> And, frankly, if you take ibogaine and you're still cynical about life, 
> then
> it's not working for you. Ibogaine is 100% anti-cynicism - really!
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: 24 January 2005 14:46
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] free
>>
>>
>> I thought Ken was going to have problems fitting in with his first msg
>> to the list. I didn't need to worry ;)
>>
>> I don't know what all everyone else gets reading Ken's messages but I
>> don't read anything from him that's like what you've described here.
>> He's funny and cynical, that describes most of the people on this list
>> who have been junkies for years, whether they got clean or not.
>>
>> .:vector:.
>>
>> --- Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Hey Walter,
>> >
>> > Ken's a drag, man. He pushes people away who are just trying to
>> > communicate with him, because he's scared of sharing himself, and
>> > won't
>> > own that. And when someone confronts him a little he hides himself
>> > away
>> > in self pity. Well, poor baby! I'm sorry, but I've seen it a hundred
>> >
>> > times in the group room and it's just a drag to me. He's not going
>> > anywhere with this attitude and until he himself changes it nothing
>> > is
>> > going to change in his life.
>> >
>> > So he's taken ibogaine a few times, well big deal. Anyone can take
>> > ibogaine, the question is whether you can follow through in life with
>> >
>> > what it shows you.
>> >
>> > Ken, why don't you share a little more about your life, from the
>> > heart.
>> > I for one would like to know and I'm sure others would too.
>> >
>> > with love
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  -----Original Message-----
>> > From: walt denton [mailto:wally1 at willitsonline.com]
>> > Sent: 23 January 2005 22:05
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] free
>> >
>> >
>> > quite a self-indulgent little spasm
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >   From: Kirsty Sutherland
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 12:30 AM
>> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] free
>> >
>> >
>> > Lol, piss off you freaky troll!!!  And calling me young aint gonna
>> > help
>> > ya!
>> >
>> > Andif Im your child, where the hell ya been all these years you
>> > useless old bugger????
>> >
>> > Gee, being abusive is fun isnt it???
>> >
>> > :oP
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: ....Ken [mailto:chayco at island.net]
>> >   Sent: Sunday, 23 January 2005 5:06 p.m.
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] free
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Come now ,Lass,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Where are all those warm and fuzzy, open hearted, feeeeeeelings we
>> > should all share with the world ?
>> >
>> > Just because I'm a condescending, moldy spirited, curmudgeon that is
>> >
>> > certainly no reason why you cannot lift yourself up.........into the
>> >
>> > light. I expect better of you young Kristy.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >                                                           Bless you
>> > my
>> > child......Ken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> >   From: Kirsty Sutherland
>> >
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> >
>> > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:38 PM
>> >
>> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] free
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Trolls! How interesting this is my impression of you, Ken, a troll
>> > like
>> > creature constantly sneering at the world and everybody in it for
>> > having beliefs, ideas or traditions, and for some reason I get the
>> > feeling you were a lot happier on drugs!!!  Keep trying, you might
>> > find
>> > one that helps!!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: ....Ken [mailto:chayco at island.net]
>> >   Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 4:27 p.m.
>> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] free
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello Nick,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Since I am new to this group I will not immediately label you as a
>> > troll....maybe you have personal 'issues'....maybe you are
>> > 'challenged'...... or simply on DRUGS !
>> >
>> >         That's okay.......let's HUG !
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >                                   There is a hidden side of me that
>> > just warms up to this stuff  ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >     ......Ken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> >   From: Nick Sandberg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey Ken,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm also having a little trouble understanding what your needs are
>> > from
>> > the list. Are you presenting yourself as someone seeking help, or
>> > someone offering it? Would you care to share more about your ibogaine
>> >
>> > experiences, perhaps? My gut instinct, with therapist hat on, is that
>> >
>> > you are seeking help but somewhere unsure how to ask for it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Would love to hear more.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > with love
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick Sandberg  www.ibogaine.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello Nick,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yet another emotionally demonstrative person.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey Ken,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Look, maybe it's me but I'm still have trouble following exactly what
>> >
>> > it is you want. How about I go through it bit by bit and you can set
>> > me
>> > straight if needed -
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > No, I am not seeking help. As mentioned in another post I am an
>> > advocate of ibogaine and have been so for ten years.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > OK, this bit I get.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  I have facilitated the use of ibogaine extract and interested in
>> > first
>> > hand experiences with drugs other than opioids.....which I
>> > have little
>> > experience.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > OK, so you've given ibogaine extract to people. Yes? And you want to
>> >
>> > take drugs which are not opiates? Something you haven't done much of
>> >
>> > before?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   This interest is not for myself personally,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Now I get confused. You don't want to take these drugs for yourself?
>> > Is
>> > that right?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   but whether it is appropriate to reccomend a person with ....say,
>> > chronic methamphetamine use to self administer ibogaine.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You want to gain experience from listening to other list-members
>> > about how suitable ibogaine is for various addictions? Is this it?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Grateful for any more light, from yourself, or anyone else if I'm
>> > simply missing something obvious here.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hope you're doing good.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This forum has changed considerably from its early years.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >                                              regards......Ken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
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>>
>>
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