[Ibogaine] greetings re:fear

m.finman mafinman at optonline.net
Sat Jan 15 01:09:51 EST 2005

     Very strange that your provider would make your fear about him.  Normally I would launch into this tirade of sarcastic remarks, however It may be there are conversations between the two of you that I am not privy to that take it out of context.  So I shall refrain. sadly.  
     Your comment was that you wanted to be reassured it is safe under a good provider with correct dosage as long as one is healthy.  If that is the ideal situation I would assume statistically you would be safe .  My session had variables that took me out of that categorie as far as I had no provider present only phone contact between two people who didn't speak the same language (not literally)
dose not sufficient for my metabolism which led to things e v e n t u a l l y  ( Stop Yield Detour)being worked out and my health....well I guess there are people in worse shape than me but my lack of good health then is probably ions away from where you are.   I came out ok.  Everything I was blaming on all that at the time turned out to be normal for a lot of folks with my type of usage and age who had normal smooth sessions.   I found I was letting fear enter and take over the possibilities.  I was also over intellectualizing everything.  
     The fda probably takes more payola than the mob.  But that's how we all feed our fears or build any case by accepting certain info.  So that's where faith comes in.
   The thing is to take a real slow deep breath and feel what does your heart and gut and brain tell you is the real deal.  It should come to you quickly before you start to factor in the opinions of those with their own motives and your fears.  Your mention of not wanting the dose cut so you can get the full experience and not be sorry.. this also sounds like beyond all this doubt and fear you have come to terms about doing this and have very definite feelings re: what you want from it.
     When I mentioned how big a deal physical death was in the scheme of things, I didn't mean how bad things were.  I meant in the scheme of things refering to my belief system that come what may I will be really allright whether it's in this body or not in this body.  
     In hindsight to my own experience I feel it's all normal what you're going through right now.  You'd be suprised how calm you can get just taking a few deep breaths.  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: stowe01 at comcast.net 
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] greetings re:fear


                    Thanks so much for your words of wisdom. My provider saw my post and thought that I did not have confidence in him. I told him that it did not have anything to do with him. He asked me if I would be better off if I was under a hospital setting, and I told him no. It is not the provider the setter or the assistants involved, it is the plant itself. I have a little different story than most people that have or considered ibogaine. I have only done drugs for less than three years and my provider says that my habit is as small as he has encountered with ibogaine(100 mg. of hydrocodone per day) He even said that he may be able to cut my dose of ibogaine. But I dont want to do that and cut some of the effects from ibogaine and be sorry. So my reason to send that message was hopefully that I would hear from people that have done it to reasure me it is safe under a good provider with correct dosage as long as I am healthy. I am a statistic person and was trying something to compare it to as far as safety. I know that you can get killed crossing the street. But if I am smart about it and look both ways I have a great chance that I will be ok. I feel like ibogaine is like the unknown with different effects on different people. I am also ok with that unless it may have the effect that it kills some people that take it. I have read that people have died from it and I guess what my real fear was if we really know how many people have died from this since it is a underground deal. I know that I may be way out there, but what I have felt reading alot of post is that most people do this was actually to the point that they were so tired of where they are if they died from it, they were ready because they were going to die anyway. So I guess that you can see a little why someone like me could be scared. I see that the fda has deemed it possibly fatal and then the girls were found dead and then hear people discuss ing in post that they were ready for whatever because they knew this was there only choice or they were dying anyway. I do worry too much but I took all those things and said to myself "is this thing like a crap shot" I have had some good things said about my provider  but I know nothing solid about this plant. I would think that it is so rare that people could die from it and they wouldnt even know what it is in a autopsy. But anyway I appreciate your words of encouragement they mean alot to me. My faith should be stronger and that maybe something that I need to come to grips with during this journey. It is real wiered what is going on in my life right now. I have had two of the best years of my life in many ways and the drugs actually helped me be productive but all of the sudden I feel to stop and  stop now. I am following through and you gave me some good advice with the faith statement. If you have anytime I would like even more info. Even a little more detail if possib le. Not trying to get personal just very curious. I would like to hear about the trip and details how you felt. Anyway I feel like you are helping save me so I appreciate you. When I go through this I will be on this list doing what you are doing just about everyday encouraging people through this.     Steve

      -------------- Original message -------------- 

           I'm 5mos+ out from my ibogaine after 20++years of insanity.  I consider it nothing short of a miracle and am aware many times a day how different life is for me now.  I actually cannot picture that I was the one that lived that existance for all those years. When I think back on it occasionally It's like watching a movie and not having any idea who the leading actor is.  
           I'm curious who these "experts" are.  Could they be makers of methedone, or politicians that get rich importing heroin or could it be some provider who wants you to spend a years income to get treated in their "safe surroundings"? Maybe it's my lack of respect for authority (since I was 6) that has me questioning things validity regardless of what someone  with a god complex or financial motives says. You did comment that in what you read you don't find it statistically to be unsafe. Your brain and instincts got you this far.  I'll have a large glass of faith and could I get a shot of confidence to go with that! Glug Glug.  Ok silly but it's a good visualization if in the end you crap out fear!! 
           Fear and people dying,  makes me think of all the people who od'd on street drugs or died of HIV or been thrown off of rooftops or out of windows because of drugs. 
      I had no fear at 4:00am crawling into unbricked abandoned buildings on the lower east side or over the bridge in williamsburg and walking up some almost nonexistant stairs to hand a whole lot of cash to some guy and then walk out onto a street full of junkies and cops.  I always figured I had beat out the statistics on all that stuff that I was meant for other things and if all that didn't get me and kill me it wasn't going to happen now.
           Other than wanting hope and salvation from all this (which is what I feel I got) and being practical and taking some precautions I guess the thing would be to get an ekg (which is all I had)  and if there are doubts about your heart an echo cardiogram would reveal more.  Blood work for liver levels if you suspect problems there.  
           I remember after my flooding dose after being dope sick before starting as it hit and I was lying on the bed as all the visuals in my head came on I recall taking a second to realize that my body at that point in time was as still and peaceful as it ever had been.  Pretty good for someone who was just dopesick!
           Physical death is a possibility crossing the street or getting out of the bathtub.  I guess it would depend on how concrete your spiritual beliefs are as to how big a deal in the scheme of things that is.  I remember knowing that death was something that was a possibility and I took precautions to make sure the peoples who's house I was in would take no heat( what's one more dead junkie in the bronx anyway). The rest was something I wasn't going to anxt about because the bottom line was I was doing the ibogaine and let come what may.  
           I wish for you the peace and calm to realize that which you already know.
            ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: stowe01 at comcast.net 
        To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
        Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 1:40 AM
        Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] greetings

               I am new to this site and I am doing ibogaine in feb. Saw your comments and dont know what you mean by dead ends, but I have an idea. Is it the off the wall comments from some people, I guess I am neither not on some peoples level or maybe it is a post ibo language or it is inside conversation, I just dont know. I cant follow what some people are talking about. Any way I am glad that ibogane saved you. I would really appreciate any comments that would help reduce my fear of the ibogaine experience. I have a fear of dying from it. Is that normal .I have read alot on it and I dont see any evidence that it is statistacally dangerous. But the so called experts on the web make you feel like that you are crazy for doing it and more crazy if it is not under stringent medical care. What is your comment on it. Would you be scared to do it again? 

            -------------- Original message -------------- 

            > greetings, 
            > i'm guessing that i might need to introduce myself. my name's chretien and 
            > i've been living in mexico this past year. i took the long hard road of 
            > heroin addiction for 10 years until i met up with ibogaine. in a nutshell, 
            > it saved my life and gave me renewed direction and i've been dope-free for 
            > over 18 moons now. woohoo! anyways, i used to be on this list until i got 
            > feed up with dead ends and no action, just alot of talk. maybe things are 
            > different now, i know they are with me. ok, that's my intro in a nutshell. 
            > more later... 
            > mucho amor, 
            > chretien schiffer 
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