[Ibogaine] HCL (was: iboga experience & therapy)
nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Mon Jan 10 18:36:33 EST 2005
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg at gmx.de]
> Sent: 07 January 2005 10:12
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HCL (was: iboga experience & therapy)
> hallo peter,
> i don´t know if hcl is better. i got an email with the following info:
> "The second option available, using Iboga extract seems to be the best
> option available yet: it has not got the drawbacks of Ibogaine HCI,
> which may be very effective, but is very hard on the body and requires
> a higher degree of medical skill from those administering it. Among the
> severe effects of HCI are respiratory problems, heart problems and
> kidney or liver problems.
- In fact, I am presuming that all of the
> recorded deaths to date occurred as a result of the administration of
Just to mention that I wouldn't consider the opinion so much of someone who
makes a statement like "I am PRESUMING that all of the recorded
deaths...."[my caps]. I mean it's great they mention it's just a presumption
and don't try and pass it off as established fact, but basically if someone
doesn't even care enough to try and check out the information that is
available then that's someone who's opinion is not worth so much. Just my
My knowledge is: 3-4 people have died after taking ibogaine HCl, perhaps
more; 1 person has died after taking the Indra iboga extract, perhaps more;
it's generally held that people have died, some would say regularly, after
taking whole rootbark. My opinion is that if you're going to take iboga or
ibogaine in any form then there is a basic risk of death. To minimize this
go for medical tests, you need liver and heart minimum.
If someone tells you that the extract or the whole rootbark or the HCL is
safe in the face of well established facts about ibogaine related deaths
then that person has a "hidden agenda" - something they don't want to tell
you. Maybe they're on a healer trip; maybe they hate non-medical settings;
maybe they have some pet theory about the universe that they don't really
want to examine too closely, but whatever it is it means you can't really
trust what they say so much.
I'm not trying to put anybody down, we've all got stuff we don't want to
examine, me along with everybody else. But I don't think you can really take
it that ibogaine is any safer in one form than the other. That's my reading
of all the ibogaine stuff I've seen over the last 5 years or so.
One other problem that has been mentioned by suppliers of the
> basic materials for HCI production is that toxic plants can pollute the
> quality of both Extract and HCI, for this reason they agree that
> leaves, wood and fruit or other identifying material must be supplied
> with the root, so that the source material is certifiable.
> Iboga extraction has benefits that make it ideal for addiction therapy,
> because the substance is an extract containing all the plant alkaloids,
> and not only HCI, and it is widely presumed by those working with
> medicinal plants that the combination of chemicals that make up the
> plants efficacy should be extracted, not only the single purified and
> identifiable chemical that we believe is solely responsible for
> breaking off addiction."
> Am 07.01.2005 um 09:58 schrieb Peter Haaf:
> > Hi Ekki,
> > bitte kein Extraakt, gebe ihr IBoHCL, welches nach allen bekannten
> > Studien sicherer und effektiver ist.
> > Wende dich an Brian aus Prag, er macht einen wunderbaren Job.
> > Peter
> > PS. Sorry List that i answered in german.....
> > Ekkehard Rau schrieb:
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