[Ibogaine] Out of Topic Discussions - Are they effective for the list?

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Tue Jan 4 16:22:18 EST 2005

> I hate to say it, but nobody is paying too
much attention to the views of anyone about addiction,
unless they have been a drug addict. Maybe somewhere
else but not here. <

The police listen to non-addicts, as do legislators and other prohibitionist 
types, unfortunately. Other than for those exceptions from "elsewhere," as 
noted by Carla, she/you've hit the nail on the head. I haven't actually been 
following the thread she's/you're talking about here but I agree with the 
above sentence completely. If someone starts trying to tell me about 
addiction and they've not actually experienced it, I don't care if they even 
live with an addict- they might know what that is like but they still don't 
really, really, really know what the whole "I'm addicted" thing entails. 
It's too personal. V "knows" addiction like few others, but she still 
doesn't KNOW what it entails for me inside, the physical and mental 
torments. She knows a lot, but not the roots of it, the deep, dark aspects 
way hidden inside that never come to light ever, and she won't unless she 
becomes personally addicted to something (other than for her wonderful, 
beautiful, incredible, can't-be-beat addiction to me that is of course. big 
smile). So when someone begins talking about addiction, without that 
personal experience, they might be able to tell me some things about it, but 
I will still have more trouble listening to them than if the person speaking 
actually is speaking from experience. This isn't to say I can't learn from 
non-addicts, even about addictions, only that I will be more readily able to 
pay attention to addicts than non- when discussing addiction.
Does this make sense? Am I rambling? Does it matter? Who is it? What does it 
all meen? Why aren't there fields of poppies growing outside my window?
Questions without answers.
Um, ok, I'm slipping off the track now, gotta go.

Peace and love,
Preston the ramblin rambler.

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carla Barnes" <carlambarnes at yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of Topic Discussions - Are they effective for 
the list?

> Guys ;-) Calm down a little!
> If you haven't noticed in the last zillion messages
> here, a lot of people already start messages with 'ot'
> [OT] '-OT-' which means Off Topic. Sometimes they
> don't remember to post that ;-)
> This is the list charter at the bottom of all the
> messages, I think Patrick said he wrote it years after
> the list started to describe what it is. He did a
> great job and did it with humor but it's honest
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> I think the list does exactly what it's supposed to
> do, people look for help they find it, they talk,
> there are all these messages of gratitude to this
> place. I have the same feelings, I looked for help and
> inspiration and I found it here years ago and yes
> Patrick I won't mention you by name a zillion times
> anymore ;-)
> The list doesn't have any problems I can see, its a
> great community.
> Lee I like reading your messages, sometimes they give
> me something to think about sometimes I read a
> sentence and skip the rest. I also wrote you a short
> message when you first came on here about coming
> across with a lot of ego. Instead of arguing you
> changed your tone, which made me have more respect for
> you. I think part of your problem might be that you
> view yourself as this spiritual teacher and get
> frustrated when nobody shows too much interest in
> following you to wherever it is that you think you're
> going. Reading your web site I think you made this
> whole personal world without noticing what everyone
> else in ibogaine is doing and then showed up and get
> upset when everyone else doesn't want to join you
> wherever it is that you are. Now you're down on
> yourself because you've failed to live up to your own
> standards? I don't honestly know! I think you're a
> very smart, messed up person, which describes most of
> the best contributors to this list.
> If you want to gain followers or become more known as
> a ibogaine spiritual expert or whatever it is that you
> want, you might be looking in the wrong place.
> Lorenzo has never said anything except about ayahausca
> and art paintings, you set him off by writing a
> message about addiction that was less then enlightened
> ;-) right in the middle of a good message Howard
> posted. I hate to say it, but nobody is paying too
> much attention to the views of anyone about addiction,
> unless they have been a drug addict. Maybe somewhere
> else but not here.
> Francis is another crazy smart guy whos messages I
> like reading ;-) Hi Francis! Except he doesn't have
> the attitude of acting like he's looking for followers
> he's only talking ;-)
> Patrick what are the other lists here besides
> sacrament?
> The only thing that has ever truly offended me here
> are the little kids who feel the need to repost
> rotten.com pictures to this list. Hi, I know Patrick
> is friends with the person who runs rotten. I know
> they've been friends since they were both little kids.
> But neither Patrick or the person who runs rotten.com
> has ever seen the need to post their pictures to this
> list. I personally find them disgusting and if someone
> wants to view rotten.com they can go view it, I do not
> need to open my email and see little boys with Jesus
> on the ibogaine list. I think being openly disruptive
> for no reason is the one reason that someone should be
> thrown off this list.
> That isn't having a opinion that's acting like a 5
> year old who wants attention and bothering people who
> are here to get help. This is the Re elect Bush Cheney
> in 08 person who does this.
> My opinions only.
> Love to all
> Carla B
> --- Lee Albert <myeboga at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Frances,
>> I think thats a good idea. I am beginning to
>> question my contributions to the list and whether
>> there is any point. I am also thinking they are way
>> too academic to be of any real use. Apart from that
>> I don't think my last few posts were in any way
>> helpful as I allowed myself to get too personal for
>> which I apologise.
>> The list after all is primarily for people seeking
>> advice on ibogaine. Is there room for discussions on
>> healing systems etc?
>> How do we best meet the primary needs of the list?
>> Randy, any comments?
>> Lee
>> The Garden <GardenRestaurant at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Why could we not use something like ( out of topic )
>> in the subject ligne ?
>> like :
>> ( out of topic ) Mental
>> ( out of topic ) Drug news
>> ( out of topic ) Spiritual
>> ( out of topic ) Fun
>> ( out of topic ) Botanical
>> ( out of topic ) Politics
>> ( out of topic ) Where to get drugs in the Village
>> ( out of topic ) Shrooms
>> ( out of topic ) Music
>> and so on .....so on.
>> God Bless
>> Francis
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Carla Barnes"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] early Dole/Nyswander paper -
>> Att. Lorenzo
>> > LMAO, Thanks Randy!
>> >
>> > There is a sacrament list here that had a lot of
>> new
>> > messages when it opened but then everyone stopped
>> > talking. Everyone who wants to could bash out
>> their
>> > fight about spirituality and no ego over there ;-)
>> >
>> > Carla B
>> >
>> > --- BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > That's it, you guys are fucking killing me. I'll
>> try
>> > > not to get personal here
>> > > but some if not most of the people who read this
>> > > list are looking for help
>> > > for their addiction. Who cares if hubris is the
>> > > appropriate word. Most of here
>> > > us kan't spel rite aniway. Much less understand
>> the
>> > > context of what your
>> > > saying. Both of you. In other words what is your
>> > > point? I'm just a dumb cuntry boi
>> > > and I get intimidated by your intellegence.
>> > > HeHeHeHe,,,,,,,never mind. It's a
>> > > war out here and Ibogaine needs to be available
>> to
>> > > the people who need it.
>> > > "Scuse me for shooting from the hip.
>> > > Randy
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________
>> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced
>> search.
>> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>> >
>> >
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