[Ibogaine] early Dole/Nyswander paper - Addiction: A positive experience?

The Garden GardenRestaurant at comcast.net
Sun Jan 2 12:34:22 EST 2005

Hi Lorenzo !1

           With all due respect,  but that is only my humble opinion.

You wrote :
> With all due respect I think you enjoy iboga because it offers you the
chance for endless navel gazing. That's good for you and all but there would
be many addicts and doctors who disagree with your opinions. There are many
who smoke pot for the same reason..

* The navel gazing thing at least his god for us as you said, but I will
call this " introspection "  Called it navel gazing if you wish.that do not
bother me :-)

You wrote : there would be many addicts and doctors who disagree with your
* who told you that Lee wanted to have all the addicts and doctors to agree
with his views on spirituality ?. I can t speak for Lee, but personaly I
don't give a dime of the opinion of doctors regarding addiction and jugement
on the spirituality of addicts.
Unless they prove us that they can have good result on addiction, I will
trust more a Pakistani dishwasher working at Taco Bell than a doctor
regarding my sobriety.

You wrote :To put it into perspective there are countless people who have
stopped smoking without doing ibogaine 50 times or writing 100 messages
about their pain every time they stub a toe. They decided to stop smoking,
that was all.

* Good for them, more power to them!! I am happy for them, but unfortunately
most of smokers are not abble to do so and will die from their addiction.
By the way you don't have to do Ibo 50 times to quit smoking. :-)
* Actualy Lee was sharing about is experience post Ibogaine, not
particularly about his pain.

You wrote : I think all these things give you something to do, but
projecting it all over all others is hubris.

* That your opinion , but you are probably not aware that this is a Mailing
list on the subject of Ibogaine, about the treatment and the after effect in
the life of patient who took it. This a list where people share theirs
experience and strenght with  complete sincerity and honesty; if that bother
you you and if you are not used to see real human beings talking about
theirs real experience, I can understand that..... A lot of people hate
sincerity and are seriously disturb by it.

You wrote :  "The way I look at addiction" is with a lot of hubris, ego and
little understanding.

* In fact that exactly how I see your E-Mail. You put in it a lot of hubris,
ego and very little understanding.
What exactly bother you : the fact that Lee share  is deep spirituality or
is it something else ?  Let me know, I am always fascinated by people who
try for no reason to destroy spiritual growth in others.

God Bless
> Cheers
> Lorenzo
>  --- On Sat 01/01, Lee Albert < myeboga at yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> From: Lee Albert [mailto: myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:23:35 +0000 (GMT)
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] early Dole/Nyswander paper - Addiction: A positive
> Howard,<br> <br>Thanks for posting those links.<br> <br>I had a read
through the pdf and if I am not mistaken it argues that  <br>addiction is
more a question of nuerological vulnerability rather than  <br>a particular
personality type.<br> <br>The way I look on addiction is this:<br> <br>We
take a substance which removes the need to exert ego/emotional  <br>control
over our inner baggage, problems, as it replaces the bad  <br>emotional
states those repressed problems exert nuerologically  <br>speaking, with
good feelings. In other words our defenses come down but  <br>we cannot put
them back up after the substance has worn off and hence  <br>the addiction.
Maybe its more a question of the persons overall psychic  <br>state prior to
taking the substance. This could be termed an addictive  <br>personality but
I think that is misleading as I imagine we are all  <br>capable of such
character traits in dealing with the pain of baggage  <br>that is
opened.<br> <br>Addiction is a symptom of the need to resolve inner problems
imo.<br> <br>I just came back from Ireland and when I got home after a few
days I  <br>became aware of my Shadow self and a particular demon I have
been  <br>avoiding. My urge was to smoke. When I was surrounded by friends
the  <br>good inner feelings i have started to become accustomed to, due to
the  <br>healing work I have done with eboga, returned and the urge to smoke
<br>practically disappeared.<br> <br>Another perspective on addiction I
would like to consider is this:<br> <br>1. What lessons has the period of
addiction taught?<br>2. What effect does it have on the soul of the person
who fights the  <br>addiction?<br> <br>I think there is a very positive side
to addiction worth exploring and  <br>one which, as one heals the causes,
one can then as part of the healing  <br>tap into as giving one the sense
that it was not senseless and actually  <br>led someone to where their soul
wanted them to go.<br> <br>Love & Light,<br> <br>Lee<br><br>HSLotsof at aol.com
wrote:<br>Dear list,<br><br>More than twenty years ago when I was performing
literature searches on<br>  ibogaine and opioid and stimulant pharmacology
to support proposed  <br>ibogaine patents<br>  I obtained a copy of Heroin
Addiction - A Metabolic Disease by Drs.  <br>Dole and<br>  Nyswander, the
developers of methadone maintenance therapy. The paper<br>  remained in my
files unvisited for twenty years when I rediscovered it  <br>and
provided<br>  it in a brochure presented at the American Association for the
<br>Treatment of<br>  Opioid Dependence (AATOD) conference held in
Washington, DC in April  <br>2003<br>  . Most of the papers except for
the<br>  Dole/Nyswander paper were presented in electronic form on the Dora
<br>Weiner Foundation<br>  web page following the conference. There was no
PDF file of the Dole  <br>paper<br>  available and I did not have the
knowledge or time to provide such  <br>then. It is<br>an amazingly original
paper and encouraging to any methadone patient who<br>  might read it and to
any ibogaine researcher who wished to be accorded  <br>the respect<br>  in
the ibogaine world that Dole was accorded in the methadone world.<br><br>All
that being said, Heroin Addiction - A Metabolic Disease is  <br>available as
a<br>downloadable PDF file from
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