[Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga - Att. Nick - Clarification

Lee Albert myeboga at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Jan 2 09:12:05 EST 2005


Kirsty,
Do you have a provider down in NZ?
Lee

Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk at kol.co.nz> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
Hi Steve, and welcome to this list!

You’ll get to know some awesome people here from all over the world.  Most of us are/were addicted to something or everything at some stage, the reason why I like this list so much
. There’s addicts at all stages of addiction! Where else could you see this?

Just stick around and you’ll read about experiences, and discover if it’s something for you
then you can take it from there.

I’m relatively new to this list, but I love being here and reading the emails. Topics are varied.

I’m also addicted to opiates for many years and I’m looking at Ibogaine treatment, hopefully sometime this year.. it’s all relative to the ole $$ 
 sadly.

So, welcome again, enjoy your stay :o)

Kirsty

Aka captain kirk

New Zealand

 

---------------------------------


From: stowe01 at comcast.net [mailto:stowe01 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 2 January 2005 6:53 p.m.
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga - Att. Nick - Clarification


 

  

Frances,

           I am very interested in doing Ibogain and was just wondering. You have a beautiful desription of the plant. Have you ever used it? And were you an addict?  Waiting anxiously, Steve

 

 


 


-------------- Original message -------------- 

 


-Hi Lee !


 


     From a purely spiritual point of view I see Ibogaine as a pure gift of God and Mother Nature. What a powerful plant !!


A plant that can erase withdraw, craving, addiction and can act as years of therapy.  


it's a medecine , one of God signature.


 


    Looking at the flower I see a lot of white : (Yang) - Poised and confident, white works better when it is combined with gold or silver to generate an atmosphere of influence and control. The color of purity, goodness and trustworthiness.


 


    The heart of the little flower is yellow : (Yang) - Considered as auspicious as red, yellow represents sunbeams, warmth and motion. This color can make you feel cheerful. Yellow is the color of communication and health, cheerfulness and friendliness.


 


    The heart is Gold...... (Yang) - The color of God consciousness.


 


   The form is one of the star to show the relation of Ibogaine too the above.


   


              Do you think that people who went throught the Ibogaine sacrement where more cheerful, healthy, helpful somehow , warm , commmunicative , tolerant and more in control of their life   ?


 


             Is that the magic behind the magic ?/ ! 


 


God Bless


Francis


 


 


---- Original Message ----- 


From: Lee Albert 


To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 


Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:57 AM


Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga - Att. Nick - Clarification


 


I wanted to say I have only the experience of God & Goddess to date. I am speculating on the existence of other Gods. Maybe there aren't any? Who knows? 


Lee

Lee Albert <myeboga at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


Hi Nick,


 


There are many streams but only one river, it is said.


 


Sorry, for some reason I thought you had a catholic background. I am sure there are cultural differences between the two which I honestly don't know much about. Also, the diff between England/Ireland culture.


 


I suppose in a way my way of thinking has a certain simplicity to it in itself. I was thinking about your post since yesterday and I think perhaps where we differ significantly is this:


 


My experience tells me that there is a creative source which at this moment in time i would say has spawned Gods=Gods+Goddesses. I imagine then that there is some kind of relationship going on between dark and light also. Just a thought.


 


Anyway, I believe that we can become or are connected to a particular God/Goddess and that each soul grows into awareness of itself and its relationship to the Gods & Source or remains undeveloped.


 


This is why I talk of dark entities as being spirits which live off our vulnerabilities as opposed to the Shadow which is ourself we run away from, i.e. a kind of psychic split that becomes personified in an inner personality we are afraid of (partly because we blame it (ourself) for the way we are and also we are frightened of it due to our indoctrination, i.e. we believe that what we are is what is wrong with us and refuse to really acknowledge who we really are in all its "darkness" also.) These dark entities, possession, are for me a reality. I see healing as consisting of exorcism (to use a strong word), healing of psychic wounds and reintegration of the Shadow. Yet, knowledge of the entities is something that falls out of the experience and is not the motivation itself.


 


Perhaps in 10 years my perspective will change but being a practical man I work from where I find myself, now, if that understanding takes me further. When it stops doing that i will ask the question: why? I find your position curious and challenging but I can only speculate on its meaning. It obviously speaks to you but may not speak to where others find themselves. In the same way what I write may not speak to where a person finds themself.


 


The most dangerous doctrine I have encountered in my entire life is the one that encourages acceptance of how things are by placing your trust in a higher source while at the same time doing nothing tangible to change.


 


In any case the proof of the pudding is in the eating and when you dump all the words the question has to be: where you are now, is it better than where you were? And if it is, then I believe the spiritual knowledge grows as a consequence of experience and intention to understand.


 


Lee




Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:


 


-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 31 December 2004 14:48
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga - Att. Nick

 


Hi Nick,

 

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

 

Krisnamurti argued that we should not accept anybody's beliefs etc. That we should find out things for ourselves and hence I have lived my life by this dictum: What is, is what is not. So I know you will understand that while I am happy to be challenged by your views there is no way I am going to depart from a path I have spent a life time finding, which has transformed my life remarkably, simply because you may consider it a folly of sorts. 

 

Hi Lee,

 

I don't consider what you're doing to be folly. I just put my energy out, that's all. 

 

One of the major stumbling blocks I went through was to let go of the simplistic catholic teachings that encouraged me to accept how things were and to seek peace of mind through a simple connection to Christ, along a few guidelines which generally played on guilt that I should be grateful for what I had. THANKS BE TO GOD I GOT RID OF THAT CROCK OF SHIT IN MY LIFE! Hence, I was very excited when I didn’t find Krisnamurti – I found myself!

 

So when I read what you write it reminds me of the religious teachings, Catholic included, that close the doors to many other possibilities based on the idea that it is right. Because you have not experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Think of me as spiritually immature if you wish but I am, in my opinion, a very, very blessed man. In the words of Karma, I have watched my Karma from this life burn and leave me and also Karma from my past life which I have relived through eboga. I am measurably a far different man whose experience of life is utterly transformed. I am someone who feels in a way I have not since I was a child.

 

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

 

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

 

A question: why is the idea that we have a path and work to do on that path to grow our own souls so alien to you? I am asking the question for the gut response and not the intellectual one. Is it something to do with your own catholic upbringing?

 

Well, I'm anglo-iranian but was brought up good old C of E protestant.

 

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didn’t work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesn’t matter what system you use as long as you get where you are going
a car, a plane, a train, a bicycle
. 

 

It's a good point. I do training at the Humaniversity in Holland where they are constantly battling to keep people moving towards more feeling when their mind is attracted to saying "Everything is alright as it is." There's no easy way out of the position. It's just part of the whole drama of existence. Existence grows you, what to do? 

 

Where I disagree:

 

1. “Whether you're experiencing a lot of source, or not, you've no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can't be known with the mind, there's nothing to relate it to.”

 

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. “NO MIND”, as interconnected spiritual phenomena. 

 

I'm not creating the distinction soul/not soul, just pointing toward what is existential true - (hideous word I know, existential! Makes things sound complicated) What is beyond all distinctions? 

 

Whilst you are relating to the world from the perspective Ego/not ego (I/not I) then therapy is easy because it makes total sense to "improve yourself". With the onset of a different perspective so the challenges get stronger because there is always the option to deal with the existential truth that nothing changes, as that is also your experienced reality. You also can't play small any longer, you can't hide behind the facade of "little me", this little being in a vast sea, because there is also the awareness that you experientially are the vast sea. Life for the mind gets harder because it is constantly confronted with two opposing perspectives. I read what you write about spirituality and souls etc and part of me longs to be going back to such a singular perspective. But the truth is that it's no longer my reality. I don't have a choice to take a spiritual path because I already know there's nowhere it could possibly lead to. Frankly, it's a fucking drag half the time, but that's
 how things are for me.

 

with love

 

Nick

 

2. “The only "spiritual helper" I've encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.”

 

Not my personal experience but it is the experience of many. In my experiences with eboga I am continually (these days with a cleaner ego) surrounded and helped by spirits and I see them as not I - yet we are one at a deeper level of spiritual insight. I feel a great love and respect for them. That is my experience. I see souls as separate entities that are also utterly connected. 

 

That is what makes for the greatness of "GOD" as it can have so many separate parts that are at the same time "ONE." Contrast this with planet earth that has so many individuals who are unable to work for the good of one another and most certainly do not act as ONE!

 

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things: 

 

1. "We are the source."

 

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

 

2. "Everything that can be related is relative."

 

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

 

3. "With Osho we call it "no mind." If you've got a lot of it mostly you're happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you."

 

Yes, I have a lot more of it now because of the work I have done with eboga. And because I have  recognised my humanity and how it works the doors are now opening to a higher state of mind. This is the work you seem to have difficulty accepting as necessary. I think this is the crux of your debate - you dislike any system of thought that leaves you with something to do. 

 

4. “My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the mind that's having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is. They don't do anything because there's no possibility you could ever be anything other than 100% who you are.”

 

Yes, and through the work we learn this but first we need to learn the reasons behind the blockage and in doing so the blockage falls away and we grow spiritually to be a differentiated soul that fully participates in the whole which then makes the whole greater: GOD GROWS.

 

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

 

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of “NO MIND” as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

 

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: “You are unclean. You touched that woman!” He replied: “I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.”

 

Love & Light, 

 

Lee

 

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!




Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 26 December 2004 16:37
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell - att Jasen
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I wrote a considered reply but it got gobbled up when
> I hit send on my TV
> internet connection back in Ireland. So I will keep
> this one "brief."
>

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> In the same way there is probably a unifying field
> theory that
> explains all phenomena in this dimension, I believe
> there is also
> a source from which all comes and through the power of
> creation,
> which you and jasen have alluded, much has been
> created.
>

there is no unifying field theory. the universe IS a unified field. it
doesn't need a theory in order to be. The occasional desire that rises in
humans to create unifying field theories is merely the field having fun with
itself. There is nothing outside of the field to even call it a field.

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

we are the source, man. Everything that can be related is relative. Whether
you're experiencing a lot of source, or not, you've no real way to know
this, because an undifferentiated field can't be known with the mind,
there's nothing to relate it to. For sure, you can TRY and look at the
source or something.

With Osho we call it "no mind." If you've got a lot of it mostly you're
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the
mind that's having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is.
They don't do anything because there's no possibility you could ever be
anything other than 100% who you are. Of course, we all of us, certainly me,
regularly experience an intense desire to challenge this.

> I have a question for you:
>
> Who or what for you are the spiritual helpers who work
> through the eboga
> spirit and bring so much healing to so many? Should
> they be ignored or is
> a certain amount of gratiude in order?
>

Personally, I feel gratitude, for sure, even though my own iboga initiation
in the Cameroun was a pretty crazy and haphazard affair. And the only
"spiritual helper" I've encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.
I've had some unbelievably brutal and unbelievably blissful experiences but
they've all seemed to be just me talking to me. That was my experience.

with love

Nick


> A Happy New Year to you
>
> Lee
>
>
> --- Nick Sandberg wrote:
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> > Sent: 20 December 2004 17:34
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven &
> > Hell - att Jasen
> >
> >
> > Hi Jasen,
> >
> > Forgive me for saying this (100% respect intended)
> > but I am sorry, I dont
> > think it is that simple.
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > The truth is very simple when it hits. It is
> > insanely simple. I was in the
> > Humaniversity in Holland, very spaced out on the AUM
>
>
> =====
> http://www.myeboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
> media available here:
>
> www.myeboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:


 


www.myeboga.com/freecopy.html


 





---------------------------------


ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! 

 

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:


 


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---------------------------------


ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! 

 

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:


 


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Author: Amazing Grace 
 
A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
 
www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html
 
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
 
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