[Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga

Lee Albert myeboga at yahoo.co.uk
Sat Jan 1 09:13:45 EST 2005


Hi Planteur,
 
Thats a good question. I dont honestly know. His views sometimes seemed to me to be very definite or disdainful of many systems or ways. Yet there was an integrity that encouraged people to let go of all beliefs which is what I did due to his influence. A good influence.
 
I think he himself would have to admit that we each find our own way and if eboga helps who is he to say no? I think he was right in one sense to be against all drugs but even as an "enlightened" being it doesn't mean you know it all. Much knowledge in this state is on a need to know basis as enlightenment is not the same as suddenly gaining lots of non-personal technical knowledge imo, eg, how does a rocket get to the moon? 
 
So his reaction against all drugs as you put it (not my words and I am not sure if that was his position 100%) was probably a safe position to take. I mayself was very sceptical of eboga at the beginning as I still had the idea that all change had to be catalysed by "myself." However,
I like to think that I graduated out of the basic training he gave which is what any true teacher imo should be aiming to do.
 
The point of any real teaching is to empower the person because when you encounter the truth within yourself there is no teacher to reference only yourself. But they can open the door or perhaps point to the door and that is what I seek to do, i.e., share my insights to help others see what is possible with eboga (one of many ways) but in the end no one can get someone else to do their work. You have to build a real inner connection and live your life out of its center as it will, by default, bring you home eventually, i.e., back to your center, your Self.
 
There many many streams but only one river.
 

The sad truth is this: many will try eboga but only the truely determined will succeed. Perhaps also, those who are ready to succeed. There are a lot of spiritual dynamics at work in any given person.
 
Lee

Iboga_planteur <iboga_planteur at yahoo.fr> wrote:
Krishnamurti was against the use of any drugs, what do you think he would have thought about Eboka?
Thanks!
Planteur
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
Envoyé : vendredi 31 décembre 2004 15:48
À : ibogaine at mindvox.com
Objet : RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga - Att. Nick


 

Hi Nick,

 

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

 

Krisnamurti argued that we should not accept anybody's beliefs etc. That we should find out things for ourselves and hence I have lived my life by this dictum: What is, is what is not. So I know you will understand that while I am happy to be challenged by your views there is no way I am going to depart from a path I have spent a life time finding, which has transformed my life remarkably, simply because you may consider it a folly of sorts.

 

One of the major stumbling blocks I went through was to let go of the simplistic catholic teachings that encouraged me to accept how things were and to seek peace of mind through a simple connection to Christ, along a few guidelines which generally played on guilt that I should be grateful for what I had. THANKS BE TO GOD I GOT RID OF THAT CROCK OF SHIT IN MY LIFE! Hence, I was very excited when I didn’t find Krisnamurti – I found myself!

 

So when I read what you write it reminds me of the religious teachings, Catholic included, that close the doors to many other possibilities based on the idea that it is right. Because you have not experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Think of me as spiritually immature if you wish but I am, in my opinion, a very, very blessed man. In the words of Karma, I have watched my Karma from this life burn and leave me and also Karma from my past life which I have relived through eboga. I am measurably a far different man whose experience of life is utterly transformed. I am someone who feels in a way I have not since I was a child.

 

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

 

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

 

A question: why is the idea that we have a path and work to do on that path to grow our own souls so alien to you? I am asking the question for the gut response and not the intellectual one. Is it something to do with your own catholic upbringing?

 

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didn’t work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesn’t matter what system you use as long as you get where you are going
a car, a plane, a train, a bicycle
.

 

Where I disagree:

 

1. “Whether you're experiencing a lot of source, or not, you've no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can't be known with the mind, there's nothing to relate it to.”

 

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. “NO MIND”, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

 

2. “The only "spiritual helper" I've encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.”

 

Not my personal experience but it is the experience of many. In my experiences with eboga I am continually (these days with a cleaner ego) surrounded and helped by spirits and I see them as not I - yet we are one at a deeper level of spiritual insight. I feel a great love and respect for them. That is my experience. I see souls as separate entities that are also utterly connected. 

 

That is what makes for the greatness of "GOD" as it can have so many separate parts that are at the same time "ONE." Contrast this with planet earth that has so many individuals who are unable to work for the good of one another and most certainly do not act as ONE!

 

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things: 

 

1. "We are the source."

 

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

 

2. "Everything that can be related is relative."

 

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

 

3. "With Osho we call it "no mind." If you've got a lot of it mostly you're happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you."

 

Yes, I have a lot more of it now because of the work I have done with eboga. And because I have  recognised my humanity and how it works the doors are now opening to a higher state of mind. This is the work you seem to have difficulty accepting as necessary. I think this is the crux of your debate - you dislike any system of thought that leaves you with something to do. 

 

4. “My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the mind that's having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is. They don't do anything because there's no possibility you could ever be anything other than 100% who you are.”

 

Yes, and through the work we learn this but first we need to learn the reasons behind the blockage and in doing so the blockage falls away and we grow spiritually to be a differentiated soul that fully participates in the whole which then makes the whole greater: GOD GROWS.

 

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

 

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of “NO MIND” as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

 

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: “You are unclean. You touched that woman!” He replied: “I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.”

 

Love & Light, 

 

Lee

 

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!



Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 26 December 2004 16:37
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell - att Jasen
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I wrote a considered reply but it got gobbled up when
> I hit send on my TV
> internet connection back in Ireland. So I will keep
> this one "brief."
>

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> In the same way there is probably a unifying field
> theory that
> explains all phenomena in this dimension, I believe
> there is also
> a source from which all comes and through the power of
> creation,
> which you and jasen have alluded, much has been
> created.
>

there is no unifying field theory. the universe IS a unified field. it
doesn't need a theory in order to be. The occasional desire that rises in
humans to create unifying field theories is merely the field having fun with
itself. There is nothing outside of the field to even call it a field.

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

we are the source, man. Everything that can be related is relative. Whether
you're experiencing a lot of source, or not, you've no real way to know
this, because an undifferentiated field can't be known with the mind,
there's nothing to relate it to. For sure, you can TRY and look at the
source or something.

With Osho we call it "no mind." If you've got a lot of it mostly you're
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the
mind that's having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is.
They don't do anything because there's no possibility you could ever be
anything other than 100% who you are. Of course, we all of us, certainly me,
regularly experience an intense desire to challenge this.

> I have a question for you:
>
> Who or what for you are the spiritual helpers who work
> through the eboga
> spirit and bring so much healing to so many? Should
> they be ignored or is
> a certain amount of gratiude in order?
>

Personally, I feel gratitude, for sure, even though my own iboga initiation
in the Cameroun was a pretty crazy and haphazard affair. And the only
"spiritual helper" I've encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.
I've had some unbelievably brutal and unbelievably blissful experiences but
they've all seemed to be just me talking to me. That was my experience.

with love

Nick


> A Happy New Year to you
>
> Lee
>
>
> --- Nick Sandberg wrote:
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> > Sent: 20 December 2004 17:34
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven &
> > Hell - att Jasen
> >
> >
> > Hi Jasen,
> >
> > Forgive me for saying this (100% respect intended)
> > but I am sorry, I dont
> > think it is that simple.
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > The truth is very simple when it hits. It is
> > insanely simple. I was in the
> > Humaniversity in Holland, very spaced out on the AUM
>
>
> =====
> http://www.myeboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
> media available here:
>
> www.myeboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
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