[Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Sat Feb 5 14:03:26 EST 2005


>Don't want to go on like a schoooolteacher but at some point you can see
that all the so-called suffering in life is just the way the universe
expands us, the way it grows us. When you put it out physically, when you
express it totally, when you accept what you are confronted with in life and
just go totally for it, then you get the expansion and the demons are now
your friends.<

All my friends are demons Nick.
;-))
    Seriously though, I'm of the opinion that the so-called suffering in 
life can be medicated quite often and this is why the substances that do 
medicate my own pains and sufferings do grow upon this planet too.
    Call it intelligent design, or simply coincidence, I don't mind either 
way- but they are here. We people have figured out ways to make some of 
these natural substances even more effective- but it's not unnatural to use 
these enhanced substances as there's nothing we can do, I believe, that's 
unnatural.
    Sorry, I'm risking repeating myself here.
    And I'm not saying I feel differently and in some ways better when not 
on quite so many opiates- but there's a trade off, in that I feel much worse 
in so many other ways when not taking quite so many opiates Nick.

Peace and love,
Preston

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Cc: "Peter Cohen" <cohen.cedro at uva.nl>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan


>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
>> Sent: 03 February 2005 23:32
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Cc: cohen.cedro at uva.nl
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan
>>
>>
>> >These are drugs of repression and the upside is....you don't
>> have to feel
>> >things you might otherwise have to...the downside is...by
>> cutting yourself
>> >from your feelings in this way you simultaneously cut yourself off from
>> >your POWER.<
>>
>> So, I should suffer in pain for the rest of my life, because I'm cutting
>> myself off from my power with my opiate use otherwise?
>>     I tend to find that when I use opiates to one degree or other (and it
>> varies) I am feeling more powerful and more able to accomplish
>> things in my
>> day and to actually get through my day without repeatedly telling
>> my V how I
>> want to "jump out the window" because I'm hurting or some other
>> depressing
>> thing. And this is after using ibogaine twice now Nick.
>>     So while I do see a need for ibogaine in this day and age of
>> prohibition
>> and even in days of no prohibition, I don't personally think we should be
>> telling people that using opiates is always bad and that they must submit
>> and succumb to treatment or else.
>>
>
> Hi Preston,
>
> I agree, I have nothing against using opiates for pain control. As i see 
> it,
> it's what they're made for.
>
>> >So, you need to keep the arguments ideological and strictly in the 
>> >mind.<
>>
>> What does this mean Nick?
>>
>
> It means that the only arena in which opiate users can realistically fight
> for their right to use is in the rational, the higher brain. I think they
> call it the neo-cortex in science. To fight in the domain of the lower or
> middle brain - the animal and reptilian sides of ourselves - you need a
> decent connection to those areas and drugs like heroin do not totally shut
> you off but they do create such a disfunction here that it's hard to go 
> into
> anything with your total energy.
>
> When you look at how current public opinion is moved and swayed around by
> the media or whatever, it's not really so much the higher brain, mostly
> reptillian, maybe some mid. In this arena it's very hard for junkies to
> fight. They're too cut off.
>
> Don't want to go on like a schoooolteacher but at some point you can see
> that all the so-called suffering in life is just the way the universe
> expands us, the way it grows us. When you put it out physically, when you
> express it totally, when you accept what you are confronted with in life 
> and
> just go totally for it, then you get the expansion and the demons are now
> your friends.
>
> Drugs like heroin back up your body's capacity to repress the experience 
> of
> FEELINGS, and these feelings are primarily the manifestation of the lower
> and mid brain in physical form - anger, jealousy, love, pride, grief, many
> more. I'm not saying at all that junkies don't get them. Often they 
> probably
> get them so strong they can't deal with them and use opiates to keep them
> down and feel sane. BUT, there is a price for this - you cannot harness
> these energies and make them compliant to your higher ideals.
>
> Nick
>
>> Peace and love,
>> Preston Peet
>>
>> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>> mistaken for madness"
>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
>> Editor "Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
>> Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> Columnist New York Waste
>> Etc.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Nick Sandberg
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Cc: cohen.cedro at uva.nl
>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:40 PM
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan
>>
>>
>> Look, Peter, talking about heroin and methadone, yes, you need to
>> push the
>> idealogical arguments as hard as you can, for one simple reason.
>> These are
>> drugs of repression and the upside is....you don't have to feel
>> things you
>> might otherwise have to...the downside is...by cutting yourself from your
>> feelings in this way you simultaneously cut yourself off from your POWER.
>>
>> So, you need to keep the arguments ideological and strictly in the mind.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Nick   www.ibogaine.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119 at xs4all.nl]
>> Sent: 03 February 2005 20:15
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan
>>
>>
>> Sure , he makes a point here and there, but he doesn't show understanding
>> for those who like to change to a non drug user,without
>> withdrawals please.
>>
>> Sara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Van: BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com]
>> Verzonden: donderdag 3 februari 2005 21:00
>> Aan: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: the ibogaine clan
>>
>> In a message dated 1/16/2005 5:01:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> Peter writes:
>> I sat on this for 2 weeks. I wrote this guy on my own. Howard had
>> nothing to
>> do with this, I don't know why Peter thinks otherwise.
>> Randy, my short-too short- argument in Nw Orelans was that using
>> ibo is not
>> much else than using methadone or some other drug or treatment,
>> to excorcise
>> these 'diabolical' drugs and use-patterns some people seem to attach to.
>>
>> I think that our main fight should be to fight for self
>> determination in the
>> choice of drug we like, and the way we use it ( given we do not
>> harm others
>> more than the normal amount). Its the same fight that started in the
>> Enlightment for freedom of religeon ( quite unthinkable even in
>> the times of
>> Calvin and still a weird and ultra dangerous idea in the 17th century and
>> now in e.g. Iran )
>>
>> But, the ibogaine game puts us in the same league as these weird
>> addiction
>> doctors that need to cure us. Just today I bought a 1948 book
>> about the cure
>> of homosexuality. Imagine a group of people who said USE IBOGAINE
>> TO GET RID
>> OF YOUR (CURSED) HOMOSEXUALITY.
>> (Actually, a medically discussed 1948 method of cure was to
>> inhale a mixture
>> of some gasses-right after the war!!-,can you imagine how short ago maxi
>> primitive ideas reigned about homosexuality!)
>>
>> We should have the right to use heroin or cocaine or whatever in
>> any way we
>> like for any duration, and we should not be forced into abstinence by a
>> cumulation of social misery put upon us by a culture that for
>> some reason I
>> do not discuss here has created intense drug users into lepers,
>> nuking their
>> pride and self esteem.
>> So, fighting for ibo treatment is saying: we miserable creatures need
>> treatment, only please let US choose the miracle treatment we attribute
>> healing to.
>>
>> I say, fight first and foremost for the right to use drugs as long as we
>> want in the amount and system we want ,against a State that maintains
>> intense drug users as witches to be chased and burned. And for
>> which the ibo
>> clan now makes ibogaine available to burn on.
>> Once we have this right, we will of course also have the right to
>> seek any
>> kind of assistence if we need help to change our ways,just as we seek
>> assistence in any way if we somehow can not divorce this husband
>> or wife we
>> hate.
>> But this assistence only makes sense if divorce is not
>> prohibited, as it was
>> in christian Europe well into the 20th century in many countries for most
>> (the rich excepted).
>> I see the ibo clan as a miserable symptom of defeat. As if they
>> say lets not
>> burn witches on a ( normal) stake, but in an (alternative) clay
>> oven. I also
>> said once that I see the ibo people as DEA agents,serving the cause of
>> prohibition because their theme is getting rid of these 'ultra dangerous'
>> drugs.
>>
>> Now, most of the ibo clan people I know are sincere folk, likeable and
>> smart. My anger is not so much focussed on them, but on their defeatist
>> voodoo ideology.
>>
>> Tell me what you think and where I am not clear enough.
>> ciao
>> pc
>>
>> PS .Howard, I'd prefer you add this as txt representing my New
>> Orleans gig.
>>
>>
>> Thanx a bunch Peter. I need all the input I can get. Thanx a lot
>> for getting
>> back to me. I'm very interested in your views.           Randy
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
>> University of Amsterdam
>>
>> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
>> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
>> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>>
>> mail address: postbox  94208
>> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>> email: cohen.cedro at uva.nl
>> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
>> fax +31-20-525 4317
>>
>> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
>> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
>> languages)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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