[Ibogaine] Psych3del1c ArT

shelley krupa skrupa20022002 at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 27 22:24:05 EDT 2005

Hi KV ,Ive tried lifering & smart -post 12 step days , I did smart for a year or so, they are secular style ,have their place, now I do therapy instead, but not for a "disease", more so to get past my patterning & story stuff, all are helpful & suit me for where I'm at in my growth -wish you the best -shell 

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan at gmail.com> wrote:Wow I love the pictures orbiting around the center. Thank you, this
has made my afternoon :-)

I've a question for you Patrick, if you read this if you don't read it
for a month that's ok I understand ;-) but you and Dave Hunter do a
lot of work together, with his art and your words which is beautiful.
What I'd like to ask is about one of the addiction series articles
from Heroin Times, I think it's from 2002, wait let me find it.


You co-wrote a article with Dave including the 12 steps. All of your
writing in the beginning was very anti-12 step and trashed all of it,
near the last piece you wrote for Heroin Times, you and Dave both
wrote a very open minded and accepting article which didn't trash
anything. At the same time all of you, by which I mean most of Mindvox
and certainly everone listed in the contributing editors section,
doesn't work the 12 steps and when Steven Anker posts he writes long
very funny but strongly anti-step material to this day but in the file
he's listed as being editor of, the Keeping Clean section, it has alot
of 12 step material and quotes from people working the steps, then the
rest of it is Stanton Peele and Peter Cohen who both make a living
trashing the 12 steps or for Peter, trashing the concept that
addiction is even real. The only other article in there is from Lee,
who I like to read and it's a good article but it doesn't really have
anything to do with drug addiction or deal with what the main issues
are when you stop doing drugs.

I'm asking all this because I'm curious what all of you do to stay
clean, the steps have never worked for me either but it's not even
that, it's what all of you have written about, the people in the rooms
drive me crazy and when I in there I walk out feeling ilke I need to
get high after listening to all the war stories.

Are there any good support groups out there that are not 12 step
based, any of you or anyone else on list had good experiences with


On 8/27/05, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
> Dave has once again iterated Gammalyte a few levels beyond where it
> was, and the results are pretty fucking amazing. If you're into
> psychedelic art, you should check it out. Many truly beautiful and
> utterly cool imageS, bursts of illumination and darkness, and rockin'
> eYe CandY:
> http://www.gammalyte.com/
> Patrick
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