[Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] what the bleep

tink tinkerbell.sarah at gmail.com
Sat Aug 13 10:54:52 EDT 2005


Hey Ron- it's good to hear another voice from you!!  I detect a nice
and warped sense of humour lurking in there, just waiting to spring
forth on the likes of us psychonauts...keep it twisted!
love to you
tink

On 8/13/05, Ron Davis <rwd3 at cox.net> wrote:
> I can't freaking believe the first post i open, precoffee, pre everything i
> need to make my body  and what's left of my southern fried brain is
> preston's and company.  HELP, ANYTHING WILL BE ACCEPTED except c-4 and the
> likes or other means which may inadvertently cause harm to others if used in
> any fashion.
> i'll ponder while working on me generator that has tripled in price despite
> corporate assurances there will be no price gauging in fla. and neither the
> feds nor the state  will go after these buggers under any theory. ok, maybe
> i exaggerated to make a point.  i need that movie, script, book, reviews to
> get up to speed, then i'll learn how to type and use spellcheck.  thanks to
> all, must start beating myself  in an ungodly way in case it gets ugly.
> ok, here's a way to start some shite this a.m. in case no one wants to go
> deep enough to discuss this issue/nonissue... i need a good signature block
> or maybe come back under another name and address and post my paltry
> credentials and make sure everyone knows it, so when i rant under the other
> name, it's credible.  won't work?
> you guys are too slick for that aren't you?  it's still early and my mind is
> expanding as i hunt and peck.  ron, a.k.a. KOKO , THE KENAI, GLOBE TROTTING,
> KLOWN  (for all yuz geo. freaks that are still intrigued by the Rubberband
> Man commercials).  rumor has it Percy Sledge or his personal rep. is going
> for the dough.                                               From: "Preston
> Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 6:12 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] what the bleep
> 
> 
> > >We're also told that when Columbus came to America, the natives literally
> > >couldn't see his ships. They couldn't think outside the box of Indian
> > >life.<
> >
> > Yeah, "Beyond the 'Bleep'" called this "the old canard," which I heartily
> > agree with. What  stupid idea, but apparently some people believe that.
> >    I found Beyond the Bleep to be a very interesting book, which examines
> > each presenter of the film, their background, what their pet theories are,
> > whether they acutally are using what could be called "testable" science or
> > simply making extraordinary claims (like JZKnight actually) with no
> > provable substance whatsoever.
> >    Still, I'm very intrigued by the whole quantum physics thing, and was
> > very happy to have read this book. Thanks for posting this review
> >
> >
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston Peet
> >
> > "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> > mistaken for madness"
> > Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> > ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> > Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
> > Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Boris Leshinsky" <bleshins at bigpond.net.au>
> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 1:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] what the bleep
> >
> >
> >
> >> >did you see "What the bleep do we know"?
> >> there are some interesting animations about addiction.
> >> go slowly but firmly, recover your hijacked brain chemistry.
> >> keep tapering benzos. I know nothing about bup.<
> >>
> >> Literallly just finished a book published by the Disinformation Company
> >> (same folks putting out my books) called "Beyond the Bleep," by Alexandra
> >> Bruce, and it explains a lot of the theories proposed and discussed in
> >> this
> >> movie mentioned above. I haven't yet seen the film, but a three hour
> >> version
> >> is supposedly in the works for Theatrical release later this year, and a
> >> bigger DVD version for early 2006. It sounds like a film I do want to
> >> see,
> >> and yes, they do discuss, in some parts apparently, addictive behavior,
> >> and
> >> not just to drugs but to others things too, including even emotions.
> >>
> >
> > that book really good (looked it up on Amazon), will have to check it out.
> > This film has been mentioned on pretty much every mailing list and forum I
> > am on I (and thats a few), its certainly kicking up a bit of a storm.
> >
> > here's an interesting article about I found quite illuminating:
> > from salon.com
> >
> > "Bleep" of faith
> > An indie film gets buzz and a big rollout. But "What the Bleep Do We
> > Know!?" uses questionable on-screen experts -- and appears to be an
> > infomercial for a controversial New Age sect.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > By John Gorenfeld
> >
> >
> > Sept. 16, 2004 | Last week, the national release of the independent film
> > "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" seemed to be just the latest success story
> > in the Year of the Documentary -- a little movie that could, launched into
> > 60 theaters across the country by Samuel Goldwyn Films after selling out
> > small theaters for months. The film's co-director, William Arntz, has
> > called it "a film for the religious left," an answer to "The Passion of
> > the Christ." It presents itself as the thinking rebel's alternative to
> > Hollywood pabulum: a heady stew of drama and documentary, starring
> > Oscar-winning actress Marlee Matlin as a Xanax-addled photographer who
> > discovers joy when she learns that quantum mechanics makes spiritual
> > wonders possible.
> >
> > But the film -- buoyed by a slew of stories in regional and national
> > outlets (including Salon) about its supposed grassroots success -- has
> > largely avoided much skepticism. And as the distributors launched a
> > national advertising campaign, on NPR's "All Things Considered" among
> > other outlets, and earned respectable reviews from a number of critics
> > (the San Francisco Examiner calls it a "smart film," and Roger Ebert,
> > while not thrilled, gave it a thoughtful two and a half stars), their
> > movie has managed to avoid much scrutiny of what, exactly, it's really
> > about -- and who is behind it.
> >
> > That has meant little attention has been given to either the film's
> > agenda, or its questionable use of supposed experts. At least one
> > scientist prominently interviewed in the film now says his words were
> > taken out of context. And two other key subjects in the film are not fully
> > identified: a theologian who, the film fails to divulge, is a former
> > priest who left the Catholic Church after allegations of sexual abuse; and
> > a mysterious woman identified only as Judy "JZ" Knight, who is actually a
> > sect leader claiming to channel a 35,000-year-old warrior spirit named
> > Ramtha. [/b]The film's three co-directors are among those who follow
> > Ramtha and look to Knight's channeled maxims to decipher the mysteries of
> > life.[/b] These Ramtha followers reportedly number in the thousands. But
> > critics call the sect a cult.
> >
> > In the movie, the 58-year-old Knight, whose accent is as thick as her
> > mascara, makes the boldest statements -- pronounced with long, rolling
> > R's -- about particles and God. "We have grrreat technology. But we still
> > have this ugly, superrrstitious, backwahds cohncept of Gahd," she says,
> > adding that "the height of arrrrrrogance is the belief of those who would
> > see Gahd in their own image." Musing on the unity of consciousness and
> > matter, she reminds us that "it only takes a fantasy for a man to have a
> > harrrd-on." In her normal mode, Knight speaks the plain talk of her native
> > Roswell, N.M., but in the manly presence of Ramtha, said to have conquered
> > the continent neighboring Atlantis, Knight's jaw juts and her voice
> > deepens into something magisterial and brash. Her Ramtha's School of
> > Enlightenment, on a $2 million compound based in Yelm, Wash., boasts
> > followers -- including celebrities like actress Shirley MacLaine (who
> > attended Knight's seminars in the late '80s) and "Dynasty" star Linda
> > Evans -- willing to pay up to $1,600 for a seminar.
> >
> > Reached by Salon, Meyer Gottlieb, president of Samuel Goldwyn Films, says
> > he's seen "Bleep" about eight times. Its fledgling distribution company
> > Roadside Attractions had its first real hit earlier this year when it
> > launched festival favorite documentary "Super Size Me" and is hoping for a
> > similar sleeper hit with " Bleep." Asked what he thought of the expressed
> > desire by filmmaker Mark Vicente (on a Ramtha Web site,
> > BeyondTheOrdinary.net) for his viewers to emerge from his movie in an
> > "almost trance-like state," Gottlieb only laughed.
> >
> > "The question is, Is this movie promoting a cult?" he said. "The only
> > thing we're interested in from a marketing perspective is creating a cult
> > status for the film ... cults, from my perspective, they deal with groups
> > and leaders and that stuff. This movie is about individual thinking.
> > Individual control over your future -- and your own reality."
> >
> > But not everyone involved in the movie has good things to say about that
> > message.
> >
> > David Albert, a professor at the Columbia University physics department,
> > has accused the filmmakers of warping his ideas to fit a spiritual agenda.
> > "I don't think it's quite right to say I was 'tricked' into appearing," he
> > said in a statement reposted by a critic on "What the Bleep's" Internet
> > forum, "but it is certainly the case that I was edited in such a way as to
> > completely suppress my actual views about the matters the movie discusses.
> > I am, indeed, profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum
> > mechanics with consciousness. Moreover, I explained all that, at great
> > length, on camera, to the producers of the film ... Had I known that I
> > would have been so radically misrepresented in the movie, I would
> > certainly not have agreed to be filmed."
> >
> > "I certainly do not subscribe to the 'Ramtha School on Enlightenment,'
> > whatever that is!" he finished. Albert provided Salon with an excerpt from
> > a piece he's writing on the subject, in which he says, in part, "I'm
> > unwittingly made to sound as if (maybe) I endorse its thesis."
> >
> > When told of Albert's complaints, Gottlieb said, "I certainly don't see
> > it," but acknowledged he's "not into the science 100 percent." At press
> > time, the filmmakers issued an angry "Open Letter to the U.S. Media" in
> > which it attacked the "intellectual smugness and superiority" of its
> > critics. (You can download the PDF file here.)
> >
> >
> > Knight's role as the voice of Ramtha is the most striking -- but hardly
> > the only -- omission of the film, which could easily be interpreted as a
> > full-blown infomercial for Ramtha. Two other on-screen experts are not
> > identified as Ramtha associates: Dr. Joe Dispenza, chiropractor and
> > mystic, listed as a student on the Ramtha Web site; and a man identified
> > only as "Dr. Miceal Ledwith."
> >
> > Ledwith (at one time Monsignor Michael Ledwith) was once on track to be
> > the next archbishop of Dublin, but the theologian stepped down as
> > president of Maynooth College in 1994, after a complaint that he had
> > sexually harassed a young seminarian. It was later revealed that Ledwith
> > had allegedly paid an six-figure sum to a man who accused him of sexual
> > abuse. Ledwith has maintained his innocence but left Ireland for the more
> > placid confines of Monterey, Calif. On the "Bleep" Web site, Ledwith's
> > relationship with the Catholic Church is only alluded to in a claim that
> > he was once "charged with advising the Holy See on theological matters,"
> > but he is not identified as ever having been a priest, or even as a
> > lecturer at the Ramtha school. According to a Ramtha Web site, Ledwith has
> > joined "Ramtha's core of appointed teachers." (The Ramtha school and
> > Ledwith have not responded to requests for interviews. The "Bleep" Web
> > site recommends that journalists contact an independent publicist, but the
> > movie previously listed as its P.R. contact Pavel Mikoloski, also director
> > of public affairs for Ramtha's school.)
> >
> > Later in the film, a "scientist" explains that, thanks to the strangeness
> > quivering below the subatomic level, meditating monks have lowered the
> > crime rate in Washington, D.C. But not until the end of the film do we
> > learn that the scientist making this claim, John Hagelin -- who once ran
> > for president -- conducted the research while teaching (until 1999) at
> > Maharishi University , the school named for the Beatles' guru. In JZ
> > Knight's own publications, Ramtha's existence, too, is frequently
> > explained in terms of quantum mechanics.
> >
> > Funding for the $5 million "Bleep," according to various published
> > interviews with the film's creators, comes not from Ramtha but the
> > software fortunes of director Arntz, who designed the job-management
> > application AutoSys. Now popular in Unix environments, the program sold
> > for more than $14 million in 1995. ( Eerily, the startup money for AutoSys
> > was also of Atlantean origin, or so the original investor claimed. A 1999
> > piece in Wired by David Diamond described the life and suicide of
> > Frederick Lenz III, a guru in his own right, who called himself not Ramtha
> > but Rama. The software mogul told those who rendezvoused with Rama that
> > he'd taught meditation classes on Atlantis. Later, Lenz said his students
> > were bent on his murder, and he plunged himself into the waters of Long
> > Island Sound with a $30,000 watch on his wrist and 150 tabs of Valium in
> > his bloodstream.)
> >
> > On the film's Web site FAQ, the filmmakers answer the question of whether
> > "Bleep" is a recruitment film coyly, stating that "the short answer is no.
> > During the making of the film [originally to be titled 'Sacred Science']
> > it was decided that what was important was the message, not the
> > messenger --  whoever that may be. Some people may be inspired to check
> > out RSE, and some people may be inspired to major at MIT in quantum
> > teleportation." (At press time, MIT was not yet offering such a major.)
> >
> > .Ramtha's School of Enlightenment had previously promoted itself in its
> > own films, but those had a lower budget. One was "Bleep" director Mark
> > Vicente's 2002 "Where Angels Fear to Thread." Its trailer (available here)
> > introduces Ramtha in the fashion of "Lord of the Rings," swinging a blade
> > and raising a goblet to "the challenge of being an individual."
> >
> > "Bleep" is a much slicker introduction. Its success relies heavily on word
> > of mouth, accelerated by the use of "Bleep Teams" organized by Captured
> > Light Industries, the production house set up by Arntz to create "Bleep."
> > (The film's other production house, Lord of the Wind, is named for Ramtha
> > himself.)
> >
> > Heading the Bay Area street team is Kathy Vaquilar, who organized regular
> > "Bleep" events in at least two cities a week during August. On Saturday,
> > Aug. 14, she helped organize a discussion in Berkeley that featured a
> > Ramtha representative, Cindy, "who told us more about the film's
> > background, how it got started, and about the school," she posted on the
> > "What the Bleep" forum the next day, when the movement was spreading to
> > nearby Walnut Creek. The next night, a meeting was slated for San
> > Francisco.
> >
> >
> > Vaquilar told Salon that she coordinates the "Bleep" campaign with a
> > representative of Captured Light. "I don't know that much about the Ramtha
> > school," she wrote in an e-mail to Salon, and hastens to defend its role.
> > Knight, she writes, "was only used as an interview subject. What is taught
> > at the school might seem weird to most mainstream people, but for those
> > who study or read the same materials on their own without any connection
> > to the school or to JZ Knight, their stuff is not considered unusual, but
> > rather part of what's already cutting edge."
> >
> > That edge is something Vaquilar is familiar with. In August she promoted
> > the film at the Bay Area's UFO expo in Santa Clara, serving double duty
> > with the International Contact Support Network, which comforts those who
> > say they've encountered extraterrestrials. Vaquilar herself has written
> > about meeting insectoids, who treated her fairly well; but Knight,
> > speaking in the voice of Ramtha, has warned her own followers of the "Gray
> > Men," a clique of hostile off-worlders controlling Earth's banks.
> >
> > On the surface, the movie doesn't seem to be targeting the E.T.-obsessed;
> > in fact, it seems to follow in the footsteps of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" by
> > asking us to thrill to the tapestry of space-time. But it has very little
> > patience for Enlightenment concepts like measurable results and scientific
> > proof. In the new science of "Bleep," symbolized by disembodied equations
> > and CG bubbles flying at us like stars at warp speed, we're past all that.
> >
> >
> > We're also told that when Columbus came to America, the natives literally
> > couldn't see his ships. They couldn't think outside the box of Indian
> > life. And in a subway that seems like one of many conceits borrowed from
> > the "Matrix" movies (whose metaphor has similarly been borrowed by David
> > Icke, the British author who says the world is controlled by lizard men),
> > the heroine learns that you can see chi energy particles of love, that
> > they've been captured in photographs of water blessed by Buddhists. At
> > this juncture Matlin hears a voice in her ear: "Makes you wonder, doesn't
> > it?" It's Quark, the greedy alien from "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"!
> > Actually, it's the guy who plays him, Armin Shimerman, as one of several
> > mysterious strangers guiding her to the truth.
> >
> > The impression left from sitting through a screening of "What the Bleep"
> > is that a lot of people enjoy hearing their griping about religious
> > fundamentalists reflected back to them, backed by science. There's also
> > plenty of stroking of lefty values; Ramtha has declared that all world
> > religions have in common "the suppression of women," adding, with the
> > brashness surely fashionable in the 33rd century B.C., "No woman who had
> > an abortion has sinned against God. Fuck all those assholes who tell you
> > that." On the other hand, papers from Knight's 1992 divorce case with
> > Jeffrey Knight hint that Ramtha is an ancient homophobe, who allegedly
> > declared that AIDS was Mother Nature's way of "getting rid of"
> > homosexuality and told Jeffrey Knight he should reject modern medicine and
> > overcome the disease using the school's breathing techniques, according to
> > court testimony. Tom Szimhart, a "deprogrammer" who testified on behalf of
> > Knight's husband (who eventually died of the disease) called the Ramtha
> > school a cult with an anti-scientific bent.
> >
> > The "backward" religion of Christianity, Ramtha explains in the movie,
> > doesn't appreciate how the parables of Jesus are explained by photon waves
> > and probability -- just as creationists suggest that the latest
> > archaeological science can explain Noah's Ark and a very young Grand
> > Canyon. The cumulative effect of "What the Bleep" -- whose co-director,
> > Betsy Chasse, produced the evangelical teen comedy "Extreme Days"
> > (2000) -- makes you wonder if it isn't as fundamentalist as the
> > Christianity and Islam that Ramtha inveighs against.
> >
> >
> > Even the father of the Isn't the Universe Amazing genre, the late Sagan,
> > called Ramtha out. He opened his 1997 book "The Demon-Haunted World:
> > Science as a Candle in the Dark" by asking why, if Ramtha is 35,000 years
> > old, he gives us only "banal homilies" (sample: "I have come to help you
> > over the ditch ... It is called the ditch of limitation") instead of
> > telling us, say, about the currency, technology, social order and use of
> > birth control in prehistoric Lemuria -- a country popularized by Madame
> > Blavatsky, the turn-of-the-20th-century psychic. Sagan's argument, which
> > couldn't be further from the movie's, is that science has exposed so many
> > natural wonders, there's no need to gild the lily with gray aliens,
> > telepaths and the spirits of Cro-Magnon shoguns roaming the Evergreen
> > State.
> >
> > Needless to say the book isn't on the film's reading list, which instead
> > suggests reading the works of Ramtha
> >
> >
> > ---------------
> > the United Church of Religious Science, of all things, has released this
> > attack on the film, which is also an interesting read:
> >
> > http://religious-science.com/askland0405-science.pdf
> > (or from:)
> > http://www.religious-science.com/message-board-forum/viewtopic.php?t=49
> >
> >
> > "Report on the Perversion of Science to Support Mysticism"
> >
> > Purpose: To assist in retarding the spread of pseudo-science and
> > misinformation, to present topics currently circulating our churches and
> > to encourage critical thinking.
> >
> > Addressing the topics of:
> >
> > Page 3 – Opening Quotes
> > Page 4 - Introduction and Address to the Religious Science Community
> > Page 5 - Responsibility and Reputation of Church Leaders
> > Page 6 – Defining Critical Thinking
> > Page 7 - What Is Science?
> > Page 9 - What The Bleep Do We Know movie
> > Page 11 - JZ Knight aka Ramtha
> > Page 17 - What The Bleep Do They Know? – Expert Resumes
> > Page 18 - David McCarthy – A Letter to Current Members of Ramtha's School
> > Page 19 - Masaru Emoto Water Healing
> > Page 23 - Christopher Columbus Historical Facts
> > Page 24 - The Maharishi Effect
> > Page 26 - Sai Baba
> > Page 36 - Manifestations
> > Page 44 - Architecture Retaining Positive or Negative Energies
> > Page 45 - One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge
> > Page 46 - What The Bleep Do We Know Receives Pigasus Award
> > Page 46 - Anticipation of Flawed Logic Responses
> > Page 48 - Closing Remarks
> >
> > With writings and excerpts provided by Ernest Holmes, Robert L. Park,
> > James Randi, Dr. Kathryn Turner (Director of Education, United Church of
> > Religious Science), the Google Answers research team, Columbia University
> > athematics Department and others notated and credited.
> >
> > A copy of this report is available free of charge E-mail Conrad Askland at
> > askland at aol.com
> > Please include name and mailing address
> > Or download a PDF copy at www.Religious-Science.com
> > Author's Note: There are frequent references in this report to "RSE" which
> > stands for the Ramtha School of Enlightenment led by JZ Knight, aka
> > "Ramtha". RSE has NO affiliation with Religious Science, Science of Mind
> > or the teachings of Ernest Holmes. Sometimes Religious Science will be
> > referred to as "RS" or the United Church of Religious Science as "UCRS".
> > Please make note of this very important distinction.
> >
> > This report released April 20, 2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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