[Ibogaine] NA

kevyn at the Cluster kevyn at pagancluster.org
Wed Aug 10 22:45:48 EDT 2005

Thanks for writing this Steve.
I have heard the bashing here before, and will certainly again. I mostly 
tune it out.
Everyone has an opinoin, and they are all just, for that person.

But to speak for others, well I try not to.

I am coming up on 7 years clean. Have a great life. It is thanks to 12 
steps and my choosing to change and do the work and suggestions they give.

I have heard often, that 12 steps have 100% success for anyone that is 
anyone who gives 100% effort.

If you have give 100% towards the steps and suggestions, and failed, i 
would like to hear from you. From what I have seen and heard, there is 
yet anyone who makes that claim.

Anything can work. And some things will not work for some people, or 
whatever. But closing the door on any opportunity is only limiting to 

Try Ibogaine, try 12 steps, try talking to a rock, try whatever you feel 
like doing at the time. Keep trying anything, if you want to change your 
life, truly want to more than anything else, I believe you will find 
what you need to help support that change.

If 12 steps, or if iboga, or whatever, they are not a cure, miracle, 
they are all tools but fundanmentally you are making the change. take 
credit, don't critize what works for someone else. Speak the truth of 
your version of the dream, and well keep focused on it. On you. not on 
others or the negative.

sorry for the rant, from the other lurker looking to always learn 
something new everyday. And thanks to many of you, I have learned a 
great deal on this listserve.

peace and luv

Steve Kelley wrote:

> I also am a lurker and this is my first post. I just can't let this 
> dis'ing of NA continue without my 0.5 cents.
> I can't afford ibogaine. I wish I could. I began to go to NA meetings 
> hoping that I could find some ibogaine. I mean I see every other 
> illegal drug in the world on the streets, so why not and why not at NA 
> I mean "the concept of one addict helping another". Anyway I found no 
> ibogaine, but I did find a group of clean addicts (recovering addicts, 
> ex-junkies, non-using druggies) or whatever you want to call them. I 
> found a place to feel like a normal human with a problem. Maybe NA 
> groups vary radically from place to place but I have never felt 
> sidelined because I showed up nodding. I feel listened to. I am not 
> clean but I have moderated somewhat and I have quit spending money 
> that I don't have on my habit. I don't have a clean date and I have 
> not chip or keytag, but going to meetings definitely helps me keep my 
> habit in the rational territory.
> If Julie would please send me $12,000 I will be happy to lie about NA. 
> Whatever to more comfortably beat this thing.
> sk

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