[Ibogaine] Re: rant again MAPS and burning man attendees

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Mon Aug 8 21:08:00 EDT 2005


Oh shit, it was here (not DrugWar.com's email list) I accused Tandy of being 
associated with GW Pharmaceuticals, but it's actually Andrea Barthwell, a 
different "former" official US prohibitionist with the US government- which 
org I can't recall off the top of my head (how embarrassing) but she's been 
screaming about the dangers of drug abuse for years, including the use of 
pot- but now she's a paid spokesperson for Sativex, the whole plant extract 
of marijuana that's used to treat pain in some countries now- claiming no 
"high" as a result of using this Sativex, which I don't buy one bit 
considering it's a WHOLE PLANT EXTRACT.
    Anyway, I erred earlier, so apologize publically to Tandy (egad, THAT 
hurts).
;-)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tink" <tinkerbell.sarah at gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: rant again MAPS and burning man attendees


WELL said, Mr Peet.  I was too busy sputtering to write anything
rational.  I had to go and smoke a joint :]
love you
tink

On 8/8/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >To add my own two cents I believe drug abuse is a disease and not a
> choice and arresting millions for a disease is vengeance not health
> care or justice.<
>
> I'm not sure exactly of where you are standing in your message (other than
> that you disagree with a lot of what Dana -apparently- wrote), but I must
> note that in modern medicine, we treat diseases by cutting them out with
> scalpels, overdosing them with radiation, and force feed them barely 
> tested
> pharmaceuticals. I hesitate to call "addiction" a "disease" mainly for 
> these
> reasons.
>
> > Legal doesn't mean it's not drug
> abuse, but you don't get arrested for going to the liquor store or
> bar.<
>
> Nor does all drug use, legal and non, equal drug abuse, as your note seems
> to acknowlege.
>
> >I'm doing my best to be accepting because
> that is what I've found here, acceptance of almost anything and anyone
> but my background and sobriety started in the rooms. Chronically
> smoking marijuana or doing psychedelics every time something is
> bothering you, are considered to be drug abuse as much as anyone doing
> heroin or smoking crack.<
>
> Well, they're certainly obviously considered "drug abuse" by you, but not 
> by
> all, again, obviously.
>
> >The "medical marijuana movement" and weirdoes
> who go to burning man and think doing mdma is the answer to every
> problem that comes your way (and yes I understand they are two
> distinct groups), are considered by most people in recovery or doctors
> dealing with addiction, to be part of the problem not the solution.<
>
> Your mixing these three very distinct groups is odd to me. The "medical
> marijuana movement" hasn't a single thing to do with Burning Man festival
> (which I've never been to but am most happy it exists), other than perhaps
> some of those who attend Burning Man ALSO support the MMM. The folks at 
> MAPS
> are doing RESEARCH, in LABS for the most part, or at least are trying to
> (but it's tough getting "permission" from "the MAN" to do so), and deserve
> all the kudos and support (at least from me) that they can get.
>     And why are those who go to Burning Man "weirdos" in your book? I 
> don't
> get that at all.
>
> >The medical marijuana movement and psychedelics movement as typified
> by the drug marathon of burning man and mdma heads from maps and
> dancesafe, taking ibogaine and appropriating it into their own agendas
> does nothing except attach all the stigmas associated with those
> groups to ibogaine.<
>
> No, prohibitionists who make moral judgements on others' personal drug use
> habits, and dancing habits, and harm reduction methods are the ones
> attaching stigma to "those groups" involved in ibogaine. Why should we NOT
> "appropriate" whatever into our own agendas? Everyone is different, so
> everyone will get something different out of whatever it is we're 
> discussing
> at any given time.
>
> >Drug addicts who continue doing drugs promoting
> ibogaine as the solution to drug addiction.<
>
> Since I'm a drug addict/chronic pain patient who promotes ibogaine as a 
> TOOL
> (not a solution to drug addiction), I kinda take offense at this attitude
> (besides the fact it ain't a complete sentence to begin with).
>
> >The DEA was clear about their opinions on medical marijuana with the
> arrest of mark emery. I had never heard of mark emery before being on
> this list, all I get out of reading the headlines is a multi
> millionaire pot dealer was arrested. I should care about this why and
> it's different from the crack dealer down the street or a exstacy lab
> being shut down in what way?<
>
> Not that you "should" care, but whenever ANYONE is arrested by the
> DEA/police/customs/anyone with or without a badge, using prohibition as 
> the
> excuse to arrest them, it is wrong, UNLESS the arresttee has been
> committting VIOLENT offenses against others. It's just wrong to continue
> supporting in anyway a system that only enriches the cartels AND the
> prohibitionists, neither of whom what a single bit of change in current 
> drug
> laws or enforcement of those laws. I myself do not like Marc Emory at all-
> he's always been a complete jerk to me personally- but that doesn't mean 
> he
> deserves to be extradicted to the US for crimes he is NOT wanted for in 
> his
> own country, especially since he's been selling flower seeds (not to 
> mention
> publishing Cannabis Culture magazine, a magazine the DEA/ et al DO NOT 
> LIKE
> AT ALL). Karen Tandy, currently a spokesperson for G.W. Pharamaceuticals,
> promoting their new Savitex (sp?), a WHOLE PLANT EXTRACT OF MARIJUANA and
> LYING about the fact it has no "high" involved in its use, all the while
> trumpeting how bad the natural whole plant is, is sick, sinful, and
> disgusting, and she should have to experience just one day (or lots and 
> lots
> and lots more days) of what those who use marijuana have to go through 
> when
> they get arrested. Emory supported (and still does) a positive change in 
> the
> system, as jerkful as he could sound sometimes when writing me.
> Whether you yourself still use or not is NOT the issue, nor should it be. 
> I
> do not drink alcohol, and don't like dealing much with drunk people- but I
> don't want it outlawed either. I simply try and avoid situations where I
> might have to deal with them without chance of escaping their drunken
> babbling. No one deserves to be arrested for drugs, use or sales, ever, no
> matter what. It's wrong, and counter productive, in every single case
> (EXCEPT for those intelligence officers and other corrupt officials who
> enable the importation into Europe and the US of TONS of heroin and 
> cocaine
> every day, while making sure me and my friends, and others I've known and
> heard about over the years, get arrested for buying $10 bags of the same
> exact stuff they emable the importation of.
>     THIS is why you should care. Put aside the judgement calls (that you
> noted you weren't making at the beginning of your message) and accept that
> the system we have in place is only making things worse at every point, 
> and
> that we really can't separate one drug from any other in terms of
> prohibition.  Prohibition is simply wrong and only makes matter worse, in
> every way, and does not one single thing to make any lives better, EXCEPT
> for the cartels and those who are in the business of waging a War on SOME
> drugs and users.
>
> >My interest is recovery from drug abuse, not hearing rich drug dealers
> and drug abusers rationalizing why drug abuse is ok for everyone. This
> is called denial. From the tone of your writing I gather you are used
> to talking to those who are part of your subcultures, most people are
> not and do not want to be any more then they want to move into a
> crackhouse.<
>
> Then forcus on YOUR recovery from drug abuse, and decide if you feel that
> the police chasing after you while you were abusing ever helped you at all
> in any way. Rationalize for me please how prohibition, and pointing 
> fingers
> at people whose lifestyles you don't agree with, is going to bring about 
> any
> improvements in any way at all, please.
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness"
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mason Shipley" <maseshipley at gmail.com>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogiane related news in July MAPS newsletter
>
>
> Without making any judgments against anyone I wanted to say that what
> Matthew brought up is true. I'm doing my best to be accepting because
> that is what I've found here, acceptance of almost anything and anyone
> but my background and sobriety started in the rooms. Chronically
> smoking marijuana or doing psychedelics every time something is
> bothering you, are considered to be drug abuse as much as anyone doing
> heroin or smoking crack. The "medical marijuana movement" and weirdoes
> who go to burning man and think doing mdma is the answer to every
> problem that comes your way (and yes I understand they are two
> distinct groups), are considered by most people in recovery or doctors
> dealing with addiction, to be part of the problem not the solution.
>
> The medical marijuana movement and psychedelics movement as typified
> by the drug marathon of burning man and mdma heads from maps and
> dancesafe, taking ibogaine and appropriating it into their own agendas
> does nothing except attach all the stigmas associated with those
> groups to ibogaine. Drug addicts who continue doing drugs promoting
> ibogaine as the solution to drug addiction.
>
> The DEA was clear about their opinions on medical marijuana with the
> arrest of mark emery. I had never heard of mark emery before being on
> this list, all I get out of reading the headlines is a multi
> millionaire pot dealer was arrested. I should care about this why and
> it's different from the crack dealer down the street or a exstacy lab
> being shut down in what way?
>
> My interest is recovery from drug abuse, not hearing rich drug dealers
> and drug abusers rationalizing why drug abuse is ok for everyone. This
> is called denial. From the tone of your writing I gather you are used
> to talking to those who are part of your subcultures, most people are
> not and do not want to be any more then they want to move into a
> crackhouse.
>
> To add my own two cents I believe drug abuse is a disease and not a
> choice and arresting millions for a disease is vengeance not health
> care or justice. I also believe marijuana especially should be
> legalized and is not the same thing as smoking crack and certainly no
> more harmful then alcohol which is legal, there are more people in AA
> then all the other groups combined. Legal doesn't mean it's not drug
> abuse, but you don't get arrested for going to the liquor store or
> bar.
>
> My personal opinion on marijuana doesn't change the facts in any other
> part of my message.
>
> -Mase
>
> On 8/6/05, Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana at phantom.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 4:31 PM
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogiane related news in July MAPS newsletter
> >
> >
> >
> > We had some one from the conference at Alex Grey's would bugged Patrick 
> > to
> > get her a dose of ibogaine to--get this!--treat her pot dependency.
> >
> >
> >
> > I just had to comment on this.  I gather from the tone that you consider
> > marijuana addiction to be a sort of non-existent ailment.  I know you
> > didn't
> > actually say that so I may be misreading you.  But I know people who 
> > have
> > gone to great lengths to stop smoking pot, even to the extent of
> > substituting harder drugs like heroin.  And I would say that there is no
> > question that such a thing as marijuana addiction exists.  If addiction 
> > is
> > defined by an inability to control your actions by exercising your own
> > will,
> > than anyone who smokes pot and wants to stop but cannot is addicted.
> >
>
>
> 
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