[Ibogaine] Re: rant against MAPS and burning man attendees

tink tinkerbell.sarah at gmail.com
Mon Aug 8 20:38:27 EDT 2005

If you want to get clean, eventually you will, providing you don't
die.  NA doesn't get people clean. PEOPLE get people clean.  Tools to
do so, such as NA and ibogaine, are merely that, tools.  The decision
has to be made within, and even that is no guarantee,as most of us
well know.
Just as iboganauts want to save the world when they come down(or some,
anyway), NA inductees become rather militant about it, in my
experience. But the big question is WHO THE FUCK CARES AS LONG AS YOU
I don't care if you poke your eye out with a sharp stick and roll in
kitty litter. If that works for you, GREAT!!!If not, so be it.
enough of me

On 8/8/05, Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
> Wow.  Well good luck with all that.  In defense of NA I will say that
> millions of addicts all over the world get and stay clean there, I know of
> nothing else that can make that claim.  I would also submit that you don't
> entirely understand the meaning of the powerlessness in the 1st step and I'm
> pretty sure the word fuckwit isn't in there.  But I won't waste my time
> trying to convince you.  I just want to point out that NA is not a cult, it
> is simply another option that works for some addicts.  Anything that works
> to help an addict get and stay clean is not to be dismissed so lightly.
> As for the disease concept, my personal opinion is that it can be a useful
> tool in early recovery, because it places a responsibility on the addict to
> do something about it's treatment.  There is an old Buddhist parable about a
> man who comes to a river that he cannot cross. So he builds a boat, rows
> across, and then having reached the other side, does not proceed to carry
> the boat on his back as he continues his journey.  The boat, although
> useful, served it's purpose and so he leaves it behind.  That's my view on
> the disease concept.  Really it's a moot point.  I know I'm an addict, just
> like I know I have brown hair, so what?  It is what it is.
> Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 2:35 PM
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: rant against MAPS and burning man attendees
> Thank you, Preston, for putting that ridiculous email
> into proper perspective.
> The problem with viewing addiction as a 'disease', is
> that you are disempowering an already marginalized
> group of people("oh, you poor, little, helpless,
> diseased fuck").
> I used to have a 'disease'- the disease of using too
> much heroin and subsequently developing a chemical
> dependence on it.  I no longer use, and have not for
> nearly a year.  Where did my disease go?  In
> remission?  So, once 'diseased', always 'diseased'?
> Wow- what an incredibly positive message to send to
> struggling drug users:  "You're powerless, and you
> always will be, you pathetic weak-willed fuckwit."
> How Lame...
> It's the same NA claptrap as 'putting your faith in a
> higher power'.  One question:  where was this
> so-called higher power when the user was first
> introduced to addictive drugs, or when they were
> having a shitty enough time in life to consider
> escaping with drugs?  why would I- or anyone else- now
> want to rely on someone/something that wasn't there
> for me/us in the first place?  Bullocks...
> Addiction is not a disease- it is a cyclical,
> self-medicating pattern that people get themselves
> into, usually to escape physical and/or psychological
> pain.  The cycle CAN be broken- YOU( the drug user)
> are a powerful force to be reckoned with, despite what
> those NA wankers tell you.
> Welcome to the cult of NA....
> Bullocks, pure bullocks,
> Julie (usually silent, but lurking)
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