rant again MAPS and burning man attendees

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Mon Aug 8 11:50:50 EDT 2005


>To add my own two cents I believe drug abuse is a disease and not a
choice and arresting millions for a disease is vengeance not health
care or justice.<

I'm not sure exactly of where you are standing in your message (other than 
that you disagree with a lot of what Dana -apparently- wrote), but I must 
note that in modern medicine, we treat diseases by cutting them out with 
scalpels, overdosing them with radiation, and force feed them barely tested 
pharmaceuticals. I hesitate to call "addiction" a "disease" mainly for these 
reasons.

> Legal doesn't mean it's not drug
abuse, but you don't get arrested for going to the liquor store or
bar.<

Nor does all drug use, legal and non, equal drug abuse, as your note seems 
to acknowlege.

>I'm doing my best to be accepting because
that is what I've found here, acceptance of almost anything and anyone
but my background and sobriety started in the rooms. Chronically
smoking marijuana or doing psychedelics every time something is
bothering you, are considered to be drug abuse as much as anyone doing
heroin or smoking crack.<

Well, they're certainly obviously considered "drug abuse" by you, but not by 
all, again, obviously.

>The "medical marijuana movement" and weirdoes
who go to burning man and think doing mdma is the answer to every
problem that comes your way (and yes I understand they are two
distinct groups), are considered by most people in recovery or doctors
dealing with addiction, to be part of the problem not the solution.<

Your mixing these three very distinct groups is odd to me. The "medical 
marijuana movement" hasn't a single thing to do with Burning Man festival 
(which I've never been to but am most happy it exists), other than perhaps 
some of those who attend Burning Man ALSO support the MMM. The folks at MAPS 
are doing RESEARCH, in LABS for the most part, or at least are trying to 
(but it's tough getting "permission" from "the MAN" to do so), and deserve 
all the kudos and support (at least from me) that they can get.
    And why are those who go to Burning Man "weirdos" in your book? I don't 
get that at all.

>The medical marijuana movement and psychedelics movement as typified
by the drug marathon of burning man and mdma heads from maps and
dancesafe, taking ibogaine and appropriating it into their own agendas
does nothing except attach all the stigmas associated with those
groups to ibogaine.<

No, prohibitionists who make moral judgements on others' personal drug use 
habits, and dancing habits, and harm reduction methods are the ones 
attaching stigma to "those groups" involved in ibogaine. Why should we NOT 
"appropriate" whatever into our own agendas? Everyone is different, so 
everyone will get something different out of whatever it is we're discussing 
at any given time.

>Drug addicts who continue doing drugs promoting
ibogaine as the solution to drug addiction.<

Since I'm a drug addict/chronic pain patient who promotes ibogaine as a TOOL 
(not a solution to drug addiction), I kinda take offense at this attitude 
(besides the fact it ain't a complete sentence to begin with).

>The DEA was clear about their opinions on medical marijuana with the
arrest of mark emery. I had never heard of mark emery before being on
this list, all I get out of reading the headlines is a multi
millionaire pot dealer was arrested. I should care about this why and
it's different from the crack dealer down the street or a exstacy lab
being shut down in what way?<

Not that you "should" care, but whenever ANYONE is arrested by the 
DEA/police/customs/anyone with or without a badge, using prohibition as the 
excuse to arrest them, it is wrong, UNLESS the arresttee has been 
committting VIOLENT offenses against others. It's just wrong to continue 
supporting in anyway a system that only enriches the cartels AND the 
prohibitionists, neither of whom what a single bit of change in current drug 
laws or enforcement of those laws. I myself do not like Marc Emory at all- 
he's always been a complete jerk to me personally- but that doesn't mean he 
deserves to be extradicted to the US for crimes he is NOT wanted for in his 
own country, especially since he's been selling flower seeds (not to mention 
publishing Cannabis Culture magazine, a magazine the DEA/ et al DO NOT LIKE 
AT ALL). Karen Tandy, currently a spokesperson for G.W. Pharamaceuticals, 
promoting their new Savitex (sp?), a WHOLE PLANT EXTRACT OF MARIJUANA and 
LYING about the fact it has no "high" involved in its use, all the while 
trumpeting how bad the natural whole plant is, is sick, sinful, and 
disgusting, and she should have to experience just one day (or lots and lots 
and lots more days) of what those who use marijuana have to go through when 
they get arrested. Emory supported (and still does) a positive change in the 
system, as jerkful as he could sound sometimes when writing me.
Whether you yourself still use or not is NOT the issue, nor should it be. I 
do not drink alcohol, and don't like dealing much with drunk people- but I 
don't want it outlawed either. I simply try and avoid situations where I 
might have to deal with them without chance of escaping their drunken 
babbling. No one deserves to be arrested for drugs, use or sales, ever, no 
matter what. It's wrong, and counter productive, in every single case 
(EXCEPT for those intelligence officers and other corrupt officials who 
enable the importation into Europe and the US of TONS of heroin and cocaine 
every day, while making sure me and my friends, and others I've known and 
heard about over the years, get arrested for buying $10 bags of the same 
exact stuff they emable the importation of.
    THIS is why you should care. Put aside the judgement calls (that you 
noted you weren't making at the beginning of your message) and accept that 
the system we have in place is only making things worse at every point, and 
that we really can't separate one drug from any other in terms of 
prohibition.  Prohibition is simply wrong and only makes matter worse, in 
every way, and does not one single thing to make any lives better, EXCEPT 
for the cartels and those who are in the business of waging a War on SOME 
drugs and users.

>My interest is recovery from drug abuse, not hearing rich drug dealers
and drug abusers rationalizing why drug abuse is ok for everyone. This
is called denial. From the tone of your writing I gather you are used
to talking to those who are part of your subcultures, most people are
not and do not want to be any more then they want to move into a
crackhouse.<

Then forcus on YOUR recovery from drug abuse, and decide if you feel that 
the police chasing after you while you were abusing ever helped you at all 
in any way. Rationalize for me please how prohibition, and pointing fingers 
at people whose lifestyles you don't agree with, is going to bring about any 
improvements in any way at all, please.

Peace and love,
Preston

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mason Shipley" <maseshipley at gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogiane related news in July MAPS newsletter


Without making any judgments against anyone I wanted to say that what
Matthew brought up is true. I'm doing my best to be accepting because
that is what I've found here, acceptance of almost anything and anyone
but my background and sobriety started in the rooms. Chronically
smoking marijuana or doing psychedelics every time something is
bothering you, are considered to be drug abuse as much as anyone doing
heroin or smoking crack. The "medical marijuana movement" and weirdoes
who go to burning man and think doing mdma is the answer to every
problem that comes your way (and yes I understand they are two
distinct groups), are considered by most people in recovery or doctors
dealing with addiction, to be part of the problem not the solution.

The medical marijuana movement and psychedelics movement as typified
by the drug marathon of burning man and mdma heads from maps and
dancesafe, taking ibogaine and appropriating it into their own agendas
does nothing except attach all the stigmas associated with those
groups to ibogaine. Drug addicts who continue doing drugs promoting
ibogaine as the solution to drug addiction.

The DEA was clear about their opinions on medical marijuana with the
arrest of mark emery. I had never heard of mark emery before being on
this list, all I get out of reading the headlines is a multi
millionaire pot dealer was arrested. I should care about this why and
it's different from the crack dealer down the street or a exstacy lab
being shut down in what way?

My interest is recovery from drug abuse, not hearing rich drug dealers
and drug abusers rationalizing why drug abuse is ok for everyone. This
is called denial. From the tone of your writing I gather you are used
to talking to those who are part of your subcultures, most people are
not and do not want to be any more then they want to move into a
crackhouse.

To add my own two cents I believe drug abuse is a disease and not a
choice and arresting millions for a disease is vengeance not health
care or justice. I also believe marijuana especially should be
legalized and is not the same thing as smoking crack and certainly no
more harmful then alcohol which is legal, there are more people in AA
then all the other groups combined. Legal doesn't mean it's not drug
abuse, but you don't get arrested for going to the liquor store or
bar.

My personal opinion on marijuana doesn't change the facts in any other
part of my message.

-Mase

On 8/6/05, Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana at phantom.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 4:31 PM
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogiane related news in July MAPS newsletter
>
>
>
> We had some one from the conference at Alex Grey's would bugged Patrick to
> get her a dose of ibogaine to--get this!--treat her pot dependency.
>
>
>
> I just had to comment on this.  I gather from the tone that you consider
> marijuana addiction to be a sort of non-existent ailment.  I know you 
> didn't
> actually say that so I may be misreading you.  But I know people who have
> gone to great lengths to stop smoking pot, even to the extent of
> substituting harder drugs like heroin.  And I would say that there is no
> question that such a thing as marijuana addiction exists.  If addiction is
> defined by an inability to control your actions by exercising your own 
> will,
> than anyone who smokes pot and wants to stop but cannot is addicted.
>


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