[Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid detox(added coomentary by layperson).

Ron Davis rwd3 at cox.net
Tue Aug 2 13:29:52 EDT 2005

I'm reminded everyday in some form or another.  We must keep paying,  and 
it's not just that low level suffering when the goosebumps and trots hit 
you...it's high stakes, career grabbing,  mortgage breaking, incarcerating 
high end stuff. Geeze, I sure hope someone nice is looking over me because I 
need it. Cynical ron, trying to find a tunnel out.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid 
detox(added coomentary by layperson).

> Ron wrote in absolute wisdom >It appears,  IMHO,  that society requires 
> the addict suffer to some unpleasant degree,  a significant period of pain 
> before the suffering addict is allowed to experience sobriety.<
> Oh yeah Ron, we're scum, remember? We deserve to suffer for our sins, 
> according to moralist/powermad prohibitionists.
> Peace and love,
> Preston
> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
> mistaken for madness"
> Richard Davenport-Hines
> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Ron Davis
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after 
> rapid detox(added coomentary by layperson).
> It all seems so simple until science gets involved.  Withdrawals hurt, 
> the fear of withdrawals keep many addicts from getting straight. Most can 
> be detoxed with humane one step chemicals like IBO or benevolent tapers 
> using the same drug one is addicted to.  The DEA and AMA won't allow 
> benevolent tapers using these addicting drugs which cost pennies to 
> manufacture so the M.D.'s that are compassionate have to make up reasons 
> to prescribe the tapering drug.  It appears,  IMHO,  that society requires 
> the addict suffer to some unpleasant degree,  a significant period of pain 
> before the suffering addict is allowed to experience sobriety.  Money 
> seams to ease the addict's pain by allowing him/her access to humane 
> treatment centers but then that person is labeled, if insured,  through 
> the medical information computer data base.I realize all the professionals 
> on the list will view this as an oversimplification of the problem and I 
> certainly don't have the credentials to support my opinion. I didn't get 
> 25 years of post graduate work, only  four.  I have not studied thousands 
> of patients and read all the medical journals,  I have just suffered,  by 
> my own hands,  through four decades of fighting this battle.  Hope I win. 
> God bless the enlightened , compassionate M.D.'s
> that help the suffering addict and the laypeople like the underground 
> providers and may HELL reign on those seeking to make money off schmucks 
> like me who keep the hoop turning as I fight this thing to save my career, 
> family and life. Thanks to all who post here as I read most.  Wishing all 
> a peaceful path,  I'm quite sure I haven't found it because of my own 
> deficiencies,  but I still try.  ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Preston Peet
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com ; drugwar at mindvox.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:01 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid 
> detox.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Andrew Byrne
> To: ajbyrne at ozemail.com.au
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:26 PM
> Subject: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid detox.
> Measurement of Symptom Withdrawal Severity in a 24-Hour Period After the 
> Anesthesia-Assisted Rapid Opiate Detoxification Procedure. Teplin D, Raz 
> B, et al.  American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse (2005) 31;2:327-335
> Dear Colleagues,
> These authors from Canada should be commended for joining the small group 
> who report aspects of outcomes after commercial rapid detox procedures. 
> However, the only outcome reported here is a clinical withdrawal rating at 
> 1 and 24 hours after the rapid detox procedure in 40 subjects, 70% of whom 
> were dependent on heroin and/or methadone.  It is not clear if they were 
> consecutive or chosen in another manner, 'retrospectively'.  Seventy five 
> percent of subjects were Caucasian with the remaining 25% Asian.
> In this seven page article, the 'results' section takes eight lines, using 
> the somewhat clumsy wording: "The average [withdrawal score] for the group 
> supports lowered symptoms over a 24-hour period.  For 5 out of 40 patients 
> this was not the case, that is, their change scores were negative, which 
> indicated increased withdrawal symptoms".  So, as well as for some whose 
> symptoms became worse over 24 hours, another proportion would have had no 
> significant change in withdrawal ratings, yet these are lumped with the 
> former 35 of 40 subjects given the procedure.  It is disappointing that 
> the authors do not apparently trust readers with the raw data, even in a 
> graphic form, giving only a block table of averaged scores.
> Prospective patients, families and others may be disappointed that a 
> novel, expensive treatment for a chronic condition is only examined for 
> one single day in this publication.  It may reflect a prevalent view that 
> some such facilities are less interested in the long term outcomes than in 
> performing the procedure and 'moving on'.  This institution has done more 
> than most by publishing a series of outcome findings in a peer reviewed 
> journal.
> I have looked up the institution on a web search and found two matches. 
> One quotes a figure of $5300.00 (Canadian) for a procedure 
> [http://www.westerndetox.com/price.html accessed 16/7/05], while the FAQ 
> site is 'under construction' which would be something of a disappointment 
> for prospective addicted candidates 
> [http://www.canadadetox.com/English/faq.asp accessed 16/7/05].
> Another of the linked pages states "As it stands now, 6-8 out of 10 
> patients who are detoxed successfully will relapse in the first six 
> months, back to their drug of choice. In an effort to dramatically improve 
> those numbers, our centre encourages that all patients participate both in 
> the Naltrexone Pellet Maintenance Program and a structured aftercare 
> program conducted by an addiction specialist."  [Thus the suggested 
> treatment will cost more if the naltrexone 'pellets' are chosen.]
> Thus because the procedure has such a poor reported success rate, the 
> clinic advises an untested and unregistered sub-cutaneous drug treatment 
> as an optional 'add-on'.
> Everyone in the field knows how earnestly many of our patients are seeking 
> abstinence.  It may be this factor which clouds some people's judgment and 
> fuels the use of expensive and unproven approaches.  The first unhappy 
> reports of rapid detoxification for opiate addiction were from 1899 
> [MacLeod, N. Cure of morphine, chloral, and cocaine habits by sodium 
> bromide. Brit Med Journ (1899) 15/4/1899 p896].  The procedure may well be 
> appropriate for some candidates but until some selection criteria are 
> reported with outcome results, we will remain in the dark.
> comments by Andrew Byrne ..
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
>   Dependency Medicine,
>   75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
>   New South Wales, 2016, Australia
>   Email - ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
>   Tel (61 - 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1418817.htm
> Author of: "Addict in the Family" http://www.csdp.org/addict/
> My grandfather Harry Gracie's letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
> http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm
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