[Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid detox(added coomentary by layperson).

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Tue Aug 2 12:03:40 EDT 2005

Ron wrote in absolute wisdom >It appears,  IMHO,  that society requires the 
addict suffer to some unpleasant degree,  a significant period of pain 
before the suffering addict is allowed to experience sobriety.<

Oh yeah Ron, we're scum, remember? We deserve to suffer for our sins, 
according to moralist/powermad prohibitionists.

Peace and love,

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid 
detox(added coomentary by layperson).

It all seems so simple until science gets involved.  Withdrawals hurt,  the 
fear of withdrawals keep many addicts from getting straight. Most can be 
detoxed with humane one step chemicals like IBO or benevolent tapers using 
the same drug one is addicted to.  The DEA and AMA won't allow benevolent 
tapers using these addicting drugs which cost pennies to manufacture so the 
M.D.'s that are compassionate have to make up reasons to prescribe the 
tapering drug.  It appears,  IMHO,  that society requires the addict suffer 
to some unpleasant degree,  a significant period of pain before the 
suffering addict is allowed to experience sobriety.  Money seams to ease the 
addict's pain by allowing him/her access to humane treatment centers but 
then that person is labeled, if insured,  through the medical information 
computer data base.I realize all the professionals on the list will view 
this as an oversimplification of the problem and I certainly don't have the 
credentials to support my opinion. I didn't get 25 years of post graduate 
work, only  four.  I have not studied thousands of patients and read all the 
medical journals,  I have just suffered,  by my own hands,  through four 
decades of fighting this battle.  Hope I win.  God bless the enlightened , 
compassionate M.D.'s
that help the suffering addict and the laypeople like the underground 
providers and may HELL reign on those seeking to make money off schmucks 
like me who keep the hoop turning as I fight this thing to save my career, 
family and life. Thanks to all who post here as I read most.  Wishing all a 
peaceful path,  I'm quite sure I haven't found it because of my own 
deficiencies,  but I still try.  ron
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com ; drugwar at mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:01 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne at ozemail.com.au
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: Some Canadian figures on withdrawals after rapid detox.

Measurement of Symptom Withdrawal Severity in a 24-Hour Period After the 
Anesthesia-Assisted Rapid Opiate Detoxification Procedure. Teplin D, Raz B, 
et al.  American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse (2005) 31;2:327-335

Dear Colleagues,
These authors from Canada should be commended for joining the small group 
who report aspects of outcomes after commercial rapid detox procedures. 
However, the only outcome reported here is a clinical withdrawal rating at 1 
and 24 hours after the rapid detox procedure in 40 subjects, 70% of whom 
were dependent on heroin and/or methadone.  It is not clear if they were 
consecutive or chosen in another manner, 'retrospectively'.  Seventy five 
percent of subjects were Caucasian with the remaining 25% Asian.

In this seven page article, the 'results' section takes eight lines, using 
the somewhat clumsy wording: "The average [withdrawal score] for the group 
supports lowered symptoms over a 24-hour period.  For 5 out of 40 patients 
this was not the case, that is, their change scores were negative, which 
indicated increased withdrawal symptoms".  So, as well as for some whose 
symptoms became worse over 24 hours, another proportion would have had no 
significant change in withdrawal ratings, yet these are lumped with the 
former 35 of 40 subjects given the procedure.  It is disappointing that the 
authors do not apparently trust readers with the raw data, even in a graphic 
form, giving only a block table of averaged scores.

Prospective patients, families and others may be disappointed that a novel, 
expensive treatment for a chronic condition is only examined for one single 
day in this publication.  It may reflect a prevalent view that some such 
facilities are less interested in the long term outcomes than in performing 
the procedure and 'moving on'.  This institution has done more than most by 
publishing a series of outcome findings in a peer reviewed journal.

I have looked up the institution on a web search and found two matches.  One 
quotes a figure of $5300.00 (Canadian) for a procedure 
[http://www.westerndetox.com/price.html accessed 16/7/05], while the FAQ 
site is 'under construction' which would be something of a disappointment 
for prospective addicted candidates 
[http://www.canadadetox.com/English/faq.asp accessed 16/7/05].

Another of the linked pages states "As it stands now, 6-8 out of 10 patients 
who are detoxed successfully will relapse in the first six months, back to 
their drug of choice. In an effort to dramatically improve those numbers, 
our centre encourages that all patients participate both in the Naltrexone 
Pellet Maintenance Program and a structured aftercare program conducted by 
an addiction specialist."  [Thus the suggested treatment will cost more if 
the naltrexone 'pellets' are chosen.]

Thus because the procedure has such a poor reported success rate, the clinic 
advises an untested and unregistered sub-cutaneous drug treatment as an 
optional 'add-on'.

Everyone in the field knows how earnestly many of our patients are seeking 
abstinence.  It may be this factor which clouds some people's judgment and 
fuels the use of expensive and unproven approaches.  The first unhappy 
reports of rapid detoxification for opiate addiction were from 1899 
[MacLeod, N. Cure of morphine, chloral, and cocaine habits by sodium 
bromide. Brit Med Journ (1899) 15/4/1899 p896].  The procedure may well be 
appropriate for some candidates but until some selection criteria are 
reported with outcome results, we will remain in the dark.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

   Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
   Dependency Medicine,
   75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
   New South Wales, 2016, Australia
   Email - ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
   Tel (61 - 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
Author of: "Addict in the Family" http://www.csdp.org/addict/
My grandfather Harry Gracie's letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:


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