[Ibogaine] Comparing Ibogaine and Ayahuasca

slowone at hush.ai slowone at hush.ai
Sun Apr 10 13:23:25 EDT 2005


On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 11:28:57 -0700 Pam Paperno <pam at lviue.com> 
wrote:
>Take a look at "Time Line Therapy and the Basis of Personality"  
>Profound
>and lasting change at the most fundamental levels of personality 
>are possible in a matter of hours, rather than months or years.
>Time Line Therapy techniques, when used in conjunction with an 
>Ibogaine experience, consistantly removes both the addiction and 
>the underlying causes--

How many cases have you seen this happen in? Have you experienced 
this?

>Caveat:  Time Line Therapy techniques should only be applied by 
>someone trained and certified in Time Line Therapy.
>Pam
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <slowone at hush.ai>
>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 11:16 AM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Comparing Ibogaine and Ayahuasca
>
>
>> Here's a quotation that caught my attention:
>>
>>     Brief interventions can sometimes address selected aspects
>>   of problem patterns. However, there are no known reliable
>>   shortcuts to complete reconstructive change. It takes a long
>>   time to learn and relearn patterns of interaction in a variety
>>   of contexts. One cannot reconstruct personality by reading a
>>   good book on personality disorders, by attending a weekend
>>   encounter group, or by having an interview with a charismatic
>>   therapist. To expect significant change following such brief
>>   encounters is unreal.  One does not expect to be able to learn
>>   to ski well, to play the violin, or to master any other 
>complex
>>   skill in a brief period. Nor is there any medication that
>>   transmits interpersonal and intrapsychic skills, any more than
>>   there is a drug that will instill knowledge about how to solve
>>   differential equations. If one lacks energy, a drug can 
>enhance
>>   it. If one is distracted by a hallucinatory voice, a drug can
>>   quiet it. If one has performance anxiety, a drug can provide
>>   beneficial calming effects. But the basic program goals of
>>   good reality testing and skilled social interactions are 
>achieved
>>   only with care and with practice. No such reprogramming occurs
>>   until there is a will to change.
>>
>>   Lorna Smith Benjamin, Interpersonal Diagnosis and Treatment of
>>   Personality Disorders
>>
>> In this context, I believe iboga is excellent at interrupting
>> addictive and obsessive/compulsive patterns. To varying extents
>> it seems capable of giving a sense of the spontaneous, original
>> personality with which we were born. But it does not replace
>> maladaptive childhood learning of how to cope and get what one
>> wants with new patterns. Often one will cling to the illusion
>> that this has happened (in the form of elation over seeing the
>> truth in one form or another) because it is too much of a blow
>> to the ego to see all the redevelopment work that is needed.
>>
>> I believe the best approach is to view the iboga experience as
>> the beginning of a process of difficult change that might last
>> for many years, as long as it could take to learn a language
>> or an instrument. The true reward of such a process is mundane
>> happiness rather than existential power of any sort. This is
>> just my impression from my own experience and the net.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:02:10 -0700 Nick Sandberg
>> <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: slowone at hush.ai [mailto:slowone at hush.ai]
>> >> Sent: 07 April 2005 17:48
>> >>
>> >> The social context of iboga ingestion is much overlooked in 
>the
>> >> 'internet' approach to ibogaine, perhaps because many have 
>been
>> >> traumatised by society and thus automatically seek solitary
>> >> 'internal' solutions to pain. However I believe that the 
>social
>> >> nature of our species requires us to build a sort of life 
>that
>> >many
>> >> of us might consider mundanely trite in order to achieve
>> >stability.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Wow! This is so true. Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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