[ibogaine] After Ibogaine...

Nick Sandberg nicks22 at onetel.com
Sun Mar 7 16:58:54 EST 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sara Glatt" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] After Ibogaine...

> Hi Sara,
> What you say is true, but for me it's important to Empower the Individual
> opposed to Running Down the State. The rehab situation in the UK is no
> better than in Holland, yet it is still reasonably straightforward to get
> yourself in....if you REALLY want to. You can get funding, you might have
> attend a load of interviews, you might even have to move to a part of the
> country where there more cash available, but you CAN get it. If you want
> If I'm listening to an addict talk, I sympathize a little with the NO but
> really try to push them with the YES. Yes, it's tough, but Yes you can do
> it. It's up to You. It all comes down to You. Personally, I don't like to
> give in to the excuses, just a little sympathizing is enough.
> It's so easy to make excuses for not getting into state-funded drug
> treatment programmes, you really don't need to try...oh they should have
> done this, I can't get that, it should be like this...but at some point
> consciousness of the addict has to move towards...hey, I actually really,
> really want to do this and it's gonna be ME that takes the barriers out of
> the way. When this happens change occurs. A drug like ibogaine can take
> enough inside to see that actually all the No's are just your fear and all
> the Yes's are who you really are. And when someone's in that opened up
> of empowered awareness after an ibo-session then that would be a great
> to get them into a proper therapeutic community - encounter, bodywork,
> emotional release, relating, sexual expression, the whole caboodle. Then
> need less expressions like "functioning addicts" and more expressions like
> "change agents."
> Addicts are not the victims of state-led oppression schemes, just the
> temporary victims of their own lack of awareness. And it can
> Nick
> Hi Nick
> It can be a great way to sobriety going to a rehab after taking Ibo.
> Doing all kind of "10 golden rules".
> But it must be arranged first. And that isn't always easy. Not when Iboga
> detox. Treatment isn't recognized.
> When someone wants to do a rehab, they must have a piss test first or a
> paper showing that they just have been to an  official
>   detox. Clinic.
> When the piss found clean after a non official treatment
> The rehab doesn't take in a clean piss addicted.
> Because there are many on the waiting list.
> So when a person knows that he/she are going to take Ibogaine treatment,
> They should have the rehab expecting them for after care.
> Only since it isn't a system that are coordinated to support and recognize
> That arrangement should be done by the addict or their family.
> By the way in every state hospital, clinic , treatment there is a huge
> waiting list.And only if you have a lot of cash you can get your treatment
> before the waiting list.

Hi Sara,

Yes, this is true but that's for state hospitals. It doesn't really apply
the same to drug treatment centres. You can get places, yeah you have to put
energy into it, but you can get a place. For sure it could be better,
but....the point I was really trying to make was more about Taking The
Position that it's all the fault of the State, and not of the Individual.

To take the position that it is the State, and not the Individual, that
needs to change for the Individual to get off drugs is to take a VICTIM
position. The very action of taking such a position is Disempowering for the
Individual Addict. The internal dynamics of how change happens require the
individual to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their own state of being. This is just
how it is. Whilst the
mind takes the option of blaming the state, society or whoever besides
themselves then Change is effectively cashed out of the equation.

If I'm a junkie and I come to you saying "Help me, help me the
system's all fucked up and it won't let me get off drugs" and you say to me
"there, there, poor thing, I know, I know, I'll give you some ibogaine
instead" this is great but it's not really empowering me to get my shit
together and stay clean. Chances are, I'm back on dope pretty quick
afterwards and living a life at best looking at being a "functioning
addict." Whereas if someone takes more the position that it's simply Not Ok
to blame others, it's much stronger. Of course, it's also tougher because,
as a therapist or treatment provider, you also have to be able to take this
position yourself.

>From my time in a therapeutic community, and knowledge of how things were in
NYC's Phoenix House, addicts were told they had to take responsibility for
(i) themselves, (ii) everything they did, and (iii) everything that happened
to them. The first two are pretty straightforward but the third is the real
toughie. Taking responsibility for the drunken driver that knocked you down,
or the father that abused you is not easy. But when you understand the
conditions that need to be present in the attitude of the individual in
order that Change can occur you see that it is ultimately The Most
Empowering position you can ever take in life, and the one that can take
anyone totally away from drug use. When I studied Qabalah I found the same
thing - "I recognize the manifestation of the undeviating justice in all the
circumstances of my life" said as an affirmation on a daily basis.

At every point in our lives we have the choice to take responsibility, to
take power, or to put the responsibility on someone else, give power away.


> " One million people in Britain are on a waiting list for inpatient
> admission at any given time. Just 155,000 of those are seen within four
> weeks. For 250,000 of them, it takes more than 26 weeks to be admitted for
> care.
> -- Conrad F. Meier, Health Care News (2003)
> And this is so called NORMAL people.
> what to do while waiting ? smoke some dope ?
> Sara

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