[ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemadeextract

Carla Barnes carlambarnes at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 18 01:35:01 EST 2004


Nick your coming from one month in the future, fix
your time machine ;-) 

Carla B

--- Nick Sandberg <nicks22 at onetel.com> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "laurent sazy" <laurentsazy at free.fr>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine]
> rootbark & homemadeextract
> 
> 
> > On 8/01/04 9:54, "Sara Glatt" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Nick, In other words I would say ,A good
> Ceremony is like a good wine in
> > > a good company and a "hotel room" setting is
> like a cheap one all alone,
> > > you may get drunk from both though.
> > >
> > > S.
> > >
> > >> I can't agree with this for I have seen how the
> intentions and vibes
> > >> works,
> > >> It isn't only the Iboga or the place or the
> Shaman but the whole.
> > >> If you understand what is placebo you
> understand that there is more
> > > then
> > >> a milieu of self-aggrandisement, which is
> trust, being a shamen is
> > >> self-fulfilment in service of the life. It
> isn't self-interest that
> > >> makes a human become a shamen.
> > >
> > > For sure, I agree with you. And, furthermore, a
> lot of the work done in
> > > shamanism and also therapy requires a strong
> ego. You aren't going to be
> > > able to lead people into their own fear if you
> come on to them like a
> > > dithering, uncertain idiot. A bit of bravado
> definitely has its uses.
> > > And,
> > > in both Western and African settings, a bit of
> showmanship doesn't go
> > > amiss
> > > either. BUT, it's also, imo, worth being aware
> that the risk of all this
> > > ego-strengthening is that you, as a shaman,
> therapist, or individual,
> > > ultimately MISS the bigger picture. Developing
> psychic or shamanic
> > > powers
> > > has the associated risk of the individual
> (so-called) becoming highly
> > > identified with his or her role as shaman, and
> using it to cover over
> > > all
> > > the places of vulnerability where their own
> actual liberation is to be
> > > found.
> > >
> > > Ultimately, there's no difference between
> liberating yourself or
> > > liberating
> > > others. But someone locked into a shaman trip is
> unlikely to understand
> > > the
> > > immense and liberating truth in this statement
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >>  It is only self-interest when it is done for
> self liberating or for
> > >> Data's. Iboga will not liberate anyone who is
> not willing to be
> > >> liberated. That isn't a magic bullet; it will
> show a data that hard to
> > >> make sense because it acts differently on each
> person.
> > >> No one is to say where and when it should be
> eaten but where and when
> > >> are important for those who feel vibes and
> intentions around them like
> > >> kids do.
> > >> It's everyone agenda,and it is how a person
> feels about doing the
> > > right
> > >> thing.
> > >>
> > >> Greetings,
> > >>
> > >> S
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > >> Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nicks22 at onetel.com]
> > >> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 januari 2004 20:30
> > >> Aan: Ibogaine Mindvox
> > >> Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re:
> [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade
> > >> extract
> > >>
> > >> I have to say I think your post was a bit
> strong, really, Laurent.
> > >> Shamen
> > >> the world over have for millenia battled (some
> not so hard!) with the
> > >> tendency to create a "cult of the individual"
> from their work. And,
> > >> frankly,
> > >> posts like yours only reinforces this tendency.
> The notion of the
> > > "great
> > >> healer" is a strong ego archetype and one with
> only limited real use
> > > in
> > >> the
> > >> work itself. What starts out as a healing gift
> can easily soon become
> > >> simply
> > >> a milieu for self-agrandisement. No one has
> exclusive rights over
> > > iboga,
> > >> neither corporations nor ethnic or religious
> groups. I'm sure there a
> > >> plenty
> > >> of pygmy groups who complain that the Fang and
> Missoko tribespeople
> > > are
> > >> inadequate to become Bwiti, for instance. Who's
> to say how and where
> > >> iboga
> > >> should be eaten.
> > >>
> > >> The drug is strongly astral in nature, and has
> thus direct connection
> > >> with
> > >> the formative, primal state of existence from
> which our own conscious
> > >> experience of reality descends. Meaning,
> roughly, that it can manifest
> > >> pretty much according to its own agenda when,
> where, and unto whom it
> > >> wants.
> > >> In addition to this, the hardship of African
> initiations might be
> > >> considered
> > >> necessary for humans from certain cultural and
> racial backgrounds, but
> > > I
> > >> can't imagine this is so for everyone.
> > >>
> > >> Iboga is a self-liberating drug and it is not
> necessary to use it in
> > >> ritual
> > >> context. It's beyond all that
> > >>
> > >> Nick
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "adam gur" <adamg at 013.net.il>
> > >> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:33 PM
> > >> Subject: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine]
> rootbark & homemade
> > > extract
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Salut Laurent,
> > >>>
> > >>> First of all, I love your photos man...
> > >>>
> > >>> I guess you didn't understand the part where
> I've already
> > >>> been initiated by the Bwiti- in Cameroun alas,
> not Gabon.
> > >>>
> > >>> And yes I am a shaman, I live in Israel, if I
> throw a stone
> > >>> from my balcony, I hit at least two shamans
> and one meshuganah.
> > >>>
> > >>> We're all in this together, Laurent, we're all
> shamans, we're all
> > >> bullshit
> > >>> artists, we're all spirit... same difference..
> > >>>
> > >>> And fresh iboga does taste like montezuma's
> revenge served cold.
> > >>>
> > >>> It's the world's greatest tough-love remedy;
> one taste and you know,
> > >>> this is fuckin' personal. And as  I was
> saying, I think fresh root
> > > is
> > >> best,
> > >>> better than HCl or any extract, I just really
> wish I could stomach
> > > it.
> > >>> But if I can't, I'm supposed to just walk
> away?
> > >>>
> > >>> From your email I realize you are a decent
> person, one with dignity.
> > >>> But I don't like the part where you say,
> 'they've been doing this
> > > for
> > >>> centuries
> > >>> and they have the knowledge'. They have
> customs and beliefs and
> > >> purposes
> > >>> that I do not require. The music was amazing
> though.
> > >>>
> > >>> Knowledge is one hot potato - catch it, toss
> it, there's more coming
> > >> at
> > >> you.
> > >>> Try and pocket it and you're going to do some
> funky dancing for
> > > us...
> > >> that's
> > >>> where's 'pants on fire' comes from. I'm not
> saying they are trying
> > > to
> > >> pocket
> > >>> the
> > >>> knowledge but come on, this gift is for all of
> humanity and I'm
> > > sorry
> > >> but
> > >>> I'll be glad to hear whatever anyone wishes to
> impart but I'm not
> > >> following
> > >>> anyone anywhere... I'm not asking for
> permission, supplication or
> > >>> directions; I
> > >>> don't want to go see the ancestors, I'm my own
> ancestor. You can
> > > take
> > >> iboga
> > >>> with
> > >>> all the trepidation in the world, or you can
> hop on your cosmic
> > > harley
> > >> and
> > >>> rip a tear
> > >>> thru a couple of dimensions. Ruffle a few
> angel feathers while
> > > you're
> > >> at
> > >> it.
> > >>>
> > >>> That's all just my way of saying, iboga is
> 'self-actualization' and
> > >> you
> > >>> can't accomplish
> > >>> that by prostrating yourself and requesting
> this liberation from, or
> > >> thru,
> > >>> others.
> > >>>
> > >>> Btw, Iboga the teacher-spirit has a great
> sense of humor too. You
> > > just
> > >> got
> > >>> to have
> > >>> your wits about you.
> > >>>
> > >>> peace,
> > >>> Adam
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "laurent sazy" <laurentsazy at free.fr>
> > >>> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:52 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade
> extract
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> My Friend,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Very good, you find some iboga roots . Do you
> know gabonese eat
> > >> iboga
> > >>> roots(
> > >>>> fresh bark or dried iboga) like that from
> centuries and they have
> > >> the
> > >>>> knowledge. Do you know how iboga works?. Are
> you a shaman to eat
> > >> yourself
> > >>>> iboga?
> > >>>> Please, if you want to take iboga, why you
> don't go to Gabon and
> > > eat
> > >> iboga
> > >>>> in a ritual Bwiti? It is 100% better and
> extraordinary and shamans
> > >> will
> > >>>> teach you a lot.
> > >>>> Taking iboga in your room with friends will
> discredit iboga in the
> > >> future
> > >>>> and we tried to do opposite. It is not a
> game. Iboga is a drug(
> > > the
> > >> best
> > >>>> drug) but not a game to be out of order. If
> taste is nasty, it is
> > >>>> necessary... You have a lot to learn my
> friend.........
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I wish you a good time with your homemade
> extract.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Laurent / kombo KA
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Yes Sarah I do agree with you
> >
> > There is quiet difference to do experience of wine
> for example where it
> > grows or where people will give you the knowledge
> about wine (tanin,arom,
> > year, how it grows, etc why 1987 is better than
> 1985).
> > There is quiet difference if you take coca leaf in
> Peru and taking cocaine
> > in city.
> > It's the same for iboga&bwiti.
> > Shamanism is not an easy, soft, and funny
> experience.
> > Do you think that to be a pilote of spaceship you
> doesn't need a hard work
> > during years?
> >
> > If iboga taste is nasty it is like that. You must
> go throught. Do yoy
> think
> > with should put some sugar in it?
> > Just women put some palm wine with iboga in Gabon.
> >
> > You can try direct in the ass( I'm not joking,
> people tried), it goes
> > directly from ass to your brain.You have an direct
> access to vision.It
> goes
> > directly trought the vertebral colonn. I didn't
> try.
> >
> > laurent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Hi Laurent,
> 
> You're a beautiful guy and all I'm gonna add here is
> that at some point
> you're still going to have to deal with the question
> of WHO IT ACTUALLY IS
> that is doing all this "going through it" stuff. And
> that it is through
> looking at this question that the real business of
> the treatment will become
> apparent.
> 
> All these ideas about setting and conditions are
> fine, fine, fine, but if
> you're left believing that an experience has to be
> like so, or like so, or
> like this so instead, you are actually MISSING your
> own healing through this
> belief. Healing requires nothing else than that you
> are PRESENT. Healing =
> Presence, that's it. When you are present with a
> situation, when you are
> there in the moment, you are healed. There is
> absolutely NOTHING else that
> needs to happen. NOW......see how your mind reacts
> to this statement, if it
> does, and you have all the guide posts you need.
> 
> love
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 


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