[ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract

Sara Glatt sara119 at xs4all.nl
Thu Jan 8 03:54:02 EST 2004


Nick, In other words I would say ,A good Ceremony is like a good wine in
a good company and a "hotel room" setting is like a cheap one all alone,
you may get drunk from both though.

S.

> I can't agree with this for I have seen how the intentions and vibes
> works,
> It isn't only the Iboga or the place or the Shaman but the whole.
> If you understand what is placebo you understand that there is more
then
> a milieu of self-aggrandisement, which is trust, being a shamen is
> self-fulfilment in service of the life. It isn't self-interest that
> makes a human become a shamen.

For sure, I agree with you. And, furthermore, a lot of the work done in
shamanism and also therapy requires a strong ego. You aren't going to be
able to lead people into their own fear if you come on to them like a
dithering, uncertain idiot. A bit of bravado definitely has its uses.
And,
in both Western and African settings, a bit of showmanship doesn't go
amiss
either. BUT, it's also, imo, worth being aware that the risk of all this
ego-strengthening is that you, as a shaman, therapist, or individual,
ultimately MISS the bigger picture. Developing psychic or shamanic
powers
has the associated risk of the individual (so-called) becoming highly
identified with his or her role as shaman, and using it to cover over
all
the places of vulnerability where their own actual liberation is to be
found.

Ultimately, there's no difference between liberating yourself or
liberating
others. But someone locked into a shaman trip is unlikely to understand
the
immense and liberating truth in this statement

Nick

>  It is only self-interest when it is done for self liberating or for
> Data's. Iboga will not liberate anyone who is not willing to be
> liberated. That isn't a magic bullet; it will show a data that hard to
> make sense because it acts differently on each person.
> No one is to say where and when it should be eaten but where and when
> are important for those who feel vibes and intentions around them like
> kids do.
> It's everyone agenda,and it is how a person feels about doing the
right
> thing.
>
> Greetings,
>
> S
>
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nicks22 at onetel.com]
> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 januari 2004 20:30
> Aan: Ibogaine Mindvox
> Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade
> extract
>
> I have to say I think your post was a bit strong, really, Laurent.
> Shamen
> the world over have for millenia battled (some not so hard!) with the
> tendency to create a "cult of the individual" from their work. And,
> frankly,
> posts like yours only reinforces this tendency. The notion of the
"great
> healer" is a strong ego archetype and one with only limited real use
in
> the
> work itself. What starts out as a healing gift can easily soon become
> simply
> a milieu for self-agrandisement. No one has exclusive rights over
iboga,
> neither corporations nor ethnic or religious groups. I'm sure there a
> plenty
> of pygmy groups who complain that the Fang and Missoko tribespeople
are
> inadequate to become Bwiti, for instance. Who's to say how and where
> iboga
> should be eaten.
>
> The drug is strongly astral in nature, and has thus direct connection
> with
> the formative, primal state of existence from which our own conscious
> experience of reality descends. Meaning, roughly, that it can manifest
> pretty much according to its own agenda when, where, and unto whom it
> wants.
> In addition to this, the hardship of African initiations might be
> considered
> necessary for humans from certain cultural and racial backgrounds, but
I
> can't imagine this is so for everyone.
>
> Iboga is a self-liberating drug and it is not necessary to use it in
> ritual
> context. It's beyond all that
>
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "adam gur" <adamg at 013.net.il>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade
extract
>
>
> >
> > Salut Laurent,
> >
> > First of all, I love your photos man...
> >
> > I guess you didn't understand the part where I've already
> > been initiated by the Bwiti- in Cameroun alas, not Gabon.
> >
> > And yes I am a shaman, I live in Israel, if I throw a stone
> > from my balcony, I hit at least two shamans and one meshuganah.
> >
> > We're all in this together, Laurent, we're all shamans, we're all
> bullshit
> > artists, we're all spirit... same difference..
> >
> > And fresh iboga does taste like montezuma's revenge served cold.
> >
> > It's the world's greatest tough-love remedy; one taste and you know,
> > this is fuckin' personal. And as  I was saying, I think fresh root
is
> best,
> > better than HCl or any extract, I just really wish I could stomach
it.
> > But if I can't, I'm supposed to just walk away?
> >
> > From your email I realize you are a decent person, one with dignity.
> > But I don't like the part where you say, 'they've been doing this
for
> > centuries
> > and they have the knowledge'. They have customs and beliefs and
> purposes
> > that I do not require. The music was amazing though.
> >
> > Knowledge is one hot potato - catch it, toss it, there's more coming
> at
> you.
> > Try and pocket it and you're going to do some funky dancing for
us...
> that's
> > where's 'pants on fire' comes from. I'm not saying they are trying
to
> pocket
> > the
> > knowledge but come on, this gift is for all of humanity and I'm
sorry
> but
> > I'll be glad to hear whatever anyone wishes to impart but I'm not
> following
> > anyone anywhere... I'm not asking for permission, supplication or
> > directions; I
> > don't want to go see the ancestors, I'm my own ancestor. You can
take
> iboga
> > with
> > all the trepidation in the world, or you can hop on your cosmic
harley
> and
> > rip a tear
> > thru a couple of dimensions. Ruffle a few angel feathers while
you're
> at
> it.
> >
> > That's all just my way of saying, iboga is 'self-actualization' and
> you
> > can't accomplish
> > that by prostrating yourself and requesting this liberation from, or
> thru,
> > others.
> >
> > Btw, Iboga the teacher-spirit has a great sense of humor too. You
just
> got
> > to have
> > your wits about you.
> >
> > peace,
> > Adam
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "laurent sazy" <laurentsazy at free.fr>
> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > My Friend,
> > >
> > > Very good, you find some iboga roots . Do you know gabonese eat
> iboga
> > roots(
> > > fresh bark or dried iboga) like that from centuries and they have
> the
> > > knowledge. Do you know how iboga works?. Are you a shaman to eat
> yourself
> > > iboga?
> > > Please, if you want to take iboga, why you don't go to Gabon and
eat
> iboga
> > > in a ritual Bwiti? It is 100% better and extraordinary and shamans
> will
> > > teach you a lot.
> > > Taking iboga in your room with friends will discredit iboga in the
> future
> > > and we tried to do opposite. It is not a game. Iboga is a drug(
the
> best
> > > drug) but not a game to be out of order. If taste is nasty, it is
> > > necessary... You have a lot to learn my friend.........
> > >
> > > I wish you a good time with your homemade extract.
> > >
> > > Laurent / kombo KA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








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