[ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract/laurent answer
laurentsazy at free.fr
Wed Jan 7 16:36:14 EST 2004
On 6/01/04 20:29, "Nick Sandberg" <nicks22 at onetel.com> wrote:
> I have to say I think your post was a bit strong, really, Laurent. Shamen
> the world over have for millenia battled (some not so hard!) with the
> tendency to create a "cult of the individual" from their work. And, frankly,
> posts like yours only reinforces this tendency. The notion of the "great
> healer" is a strong ego archetype and one with only limited real use in the
> work itself. What starts out as a healing gift can easily soon become simply
> a milieu for self-agrandisement. No one has exclusive rights over iboga,
> neither corporations nor ethnic or religious groups. I'm sure there a plenty
> of pygmy groups who complain that the Fang and Missoko tribespeople are
> inadequate to become Bwiti, for instance. Who's to say how and where iboga
> should be eaten.
> The drug is strongly astral in nature, and has thus direct connection with
> the formative, primal state of existence from which our own conscious
> experience of reality descends. Meaning, roughly, that it can manifest
> pretty much according to its own agenda when, where, and unto whom it wants.
> In addition to this, the hardship of African initiations might be considered
> necessary for humans from certain cultural and racial backgrounds, but I
> can't imagine this is so for everyone.
> Iboga is a self-liberating drug and it is not necessary to use it in ritual
> context. It's beyond all that
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "adam gur" <adamg at 013.net.il>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: [ibogaine] -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract
>> Salut Laurent,
>> First of all, I love your photos man...
>> I guess you didn't understand the part where I've already
>> been initiated by the Bwiti- in Cameroun alas, not Gabon.
>> And yes I am a shaman, I live in Israel, if I throw a stone
>> from my balcony, I hit at least two shamans and one meshuganah.
>> We're all in this together, Laurent, we're all shamans, we're all bullshit
>> artists, we're all spirit... same difference..
>> And fresh iboga does taste like montezuma's revenge served cold.
>> It's the world's greatest tough-love remedy; one taste and you know,
>> this is fuckin' personal. And as I was saying, I think fresh root is
>> better than HCl or any extract, I just really wish I could stomach it.
>> But if I can't, I'm supposed to just walk away?
>> From your email I realize you are a decent person, one with dignity.
>> But I don't like the part where you say, 'they've been doing this for
>> and they have the knowledge'. They have customs and beliefs and purposes
>> that I do not require. The music was amazing though.
>> Knowledge is one hot potato - catch it, toss it, there's more coming at
>> Try and pocket it and you're going to do some funky dancing for us...
>> where's 'pants on fire' comes from. I'm not saying they are trying to
>> knowledge but come on, this gift is for all of humanity and I'm sorry but
>> I'll be glad to hear whatever anyone wishes to impart but I'm not
>> anyone anywhere... I'm not asking for permission, supplication or
>> directions; I
>> don't want to go see the ancestors, I'm my own ancestor. You can take
>> all the trepidation in the world, or you can hop on your cosmic harley and
>> rip a tear
>> thru a couple of dimensions. Ruffle a few angel feathers while you're at
>> That's all just my way of saying, iboga is 'self-actualization' and you
>> can't accomplish
>> that by prostrating yourself and requesting this liberation from, or thru,
>> Btw, Iboga the teacher-spirit has a great sense of humor too. You just got
>> to have
>> your wits about you.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "laurent sazy" <laurentsazy at free.fr>
>> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract
>>> My Friend,
>>> Very good, you find some iboga roots . Do you know gabonese eat iboga
>>> fresh bark or dried iboga) like that from centuries and they have the
>>> knowledge. Do you know how iboga works?. Are you a shaman to eat
>>> Please, if you want to take iboga, why you don't go to Gabon and eat
>>> in a ritual Bwiti? It is 100% better and extraordinary and shamans will
>>> teach you a lot.
>>> Taking iboga in your room with friends will discredit iboga in the
>>> and we tried to do opposite. It is not a game. Iboga is a drug( the best
>>> drug) but not a game to be out of order. If taste is nasty, it is
>>> necessary... You have a lot to learn my friend.........
>>> I wish you a good time with your homemade extract.
>>> Laurent / kombo KA
> Bokayé Nick,
Like I replied to Adam, or others, I just give my feeling and observations
after working with Ngangas-shaman since 3-4Years and see many
initiations(black and white people) with iboga.
In the beginning I refused the protocole or the ritual. After long talk with
Mallendi, I understand and find an extraordinary technology even clapping my
hands all night like a machine and repeating pygmés song in which you
understand nothing...etc even seating on a hard piece of wood all night, and
facing the mirror etc...
I'm working with Ngangas mallendi and his Spiritual father Nganga
Ehoumou(who was formed in pygmés campement in Congo 40 years ago).
I really can confirm about knowledge. They really know how to use leaves,
root, animals, and read in invisible. They know to read your body and to
read Nature. And much more I can't descripted
Yes, for sure there is ego but who is not.
Shamanism is an old technology and if you want to learn it , it's better to
have an adviser. Who is going to teach you the bird language or what is the
parrot feather rule in the process. Oral language so you need teachers and
have experience. First you do and after you have explications. There is an
Even in Gabon I saw gabonese in the Bwiti making mistake after being looking
for iboga. It was like iboga but not.
Banzi were lucky that Mallendi check it before. How can you recognize your
iboga root than others?
For iboga initiations It is 3 days with protocoles (to die and rebirth ).
I mean, it is a delicate operation. But they have natural tools to do it.
And the protocole is to help you to see and to "fly" correctly. You are
never loose on the road. Even with them it is a fucking experience!
And it is bigger than that. And the way they do it give you an extraordinary
sens of understanding.
Nobody has the exlusive right on iboga and nobody could tell me where I can
eat iboga......well Do you know the story on Lauren Miller who tried to put
a patent on ayahuasca. With the great gift, pygmés give to us, we must
respected ,and listen how Shamans from Gabon Or peru can teach us.
after many centuries of colonialism, slavery,and now economic roberry with
petrol and forest I will prefer the royalties going back to people in Gabon
or to give money for initiation to Mallendi who is a shaman who tried to do
a lot than to market system or pharmaceutical or going to take iboga in
hospital. I really prefer the "folklore" of the ritual which is not
folklore, but really serious, natural and ecologic...etc
Why do you think religion and now movies, fictions and scientific research
give more importance in "shamanism". Why J.Narby in cosmic snake makes link
between shamanism, language, DNA,plants...Why Mallendi transform himself to
a panther for healing, why prehistoric shamans paint wall in
grottes.........why Bouddhist are talking about réincarnation, what about
mineral, vegetal, animal , human cycle,
How with iboga you can connect with past present and future and learn to
see? Iboga, bwiti and yourself will answer to all yours questions and give
you the good road to follow. Bwiti is like the oldest university for human
to survive in rainforest. Ngangas explain all from the top of your head to
your feet, from all your body to environment around(the world of forest).
they are teachers like in school.
I hope this will explain why I prefer people going to have experience in a
good place where grow iboga naturally and where people practise it since
centuries (paléolithic time).Pygmés are probably the oldest people from
where we all come from.
Also it will be probably the experience of your life and you will discover a
fantastic tradition really in the future.
As I said before, Mallendi is trying to open a village in South Gabon, a new
village for initiations and more. I just can invite people to visit him and
to see how things happen there.( you can have information on bwiti.com or
mallendi at voila.fr).
You know it is not my business, I just did photo on what I see . I'm not
Christian, jews or bouddhist, muslem etc maybe just trying to be
"religere"(latin language) . Iboga is probably the tree of knowledge, the
root of time, something we do respect so much because it is sacred.
Ps Mallendi grand father was killed by missionaries for practising shamanism
like our sorcery in Middle age
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