[ibogaine] Bill -Laurent- Re: [ibogaine] rootbark & homemade extract

Bill Ross ross at cgl.ucsf.edu
Tue Jan 6 18:32:03 EST 2004

Hi Adam,

> > > I guess you didn't understand the part where I've already
> > > been initiated by the Bwiti- in Cameroun alas, not Gabon.
> >
> > I wonder if it is possible to download the many lives of
> > experience that the Bwiti have with iboga in a single
> > initiation? Or to make a judgement about what it's about.
> I think a person could download no more than his or her
> own ibo experience... and that's more than plenty in itself.

Put another way, I understand that in a Bwiti initiation there
is a lot going on, someone said it's like a whole village,
each with a different role, working to enable your rebirth.
It is claimed that this activity works with the iboga.

Given the amount of intention involved (for example the harp
player is said to be actually married to his instrument in a
formal ceremony), I bet it is impossible to fathom what is being
done and why in one visit. And given the comparison of Bwiti 
rhythms to theta waves in the brain, I can imagine all that
intention may reflect an understanding of humanity, accumulated
through many people's experiences with iboga as initiates and


> I like the part of 'engaging in a collective process'-- but I
> wasn't aware of the bwiti's collective shamanism. How so?

The 'it takes a village' angle - all those people cooperating
and developing what they do over time.

> I know that initiation is a one-time deal, and unless one
> has voyaged to the land of the ancestors, one has failed and
> will never be 'banzi'. Other than that, iboga is really an annual,
> ten-day religious ceremony where the congregation only sips
> minute amounts of 'automatique', the iboga brew...

Can anyone else confirm this? Do Ngangas and musicians go through 
anything further than the initiation? I have heard that some people
(civilians as it were) do the larger doses on a more ongoing basis.

> My preference is for people to undergo their experience
> as part of a small group comprised of strangers, as opposed
> to friends. To share this experience with strangers is very powerful.
> As only a stranger can represent the rest of humanity. It is as though
> all of mankind, thru this stranger, has beared witness to your
> rebirth and then you realize that you are also bearing witness in return...

Nice idea.

> There are other such things that can sanctify, intensify and heck,
> I'll say it, beautify one's ibo experience. We need to make this list
> a collective shamanistic-cartographic endeavor....

Also good to do.

> About the Pygmy music you listen to-are these recordings
> of Baka Pygmies? I have 2 cds, "Spirit of the Forest" and
> "Heart of the Forest" by Martin Cradick...
> 'Heart' is pure pygmy music while 'Spirit' is Martin jamming
> with them.... very cool stuff indeed....
I have 'Heart' and like it; so far have listened mostly to 
Turnbull's recordings of Mbuti, and Ba-benzele also sounds 
good. These two would make a good addition to 'Heart':

              (merges both of Turnbull's original releases)

Just scored 'Bayaka' (out of print) on ebay yesterday, so
am looking forward to that. There are big similarities between 
all the Pygmy recordings I've heard, no matter what the group.

Here's a big list of recordings of Pygmies:



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