ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Sat Feb 14 19:29:55 EST 2004
>I do want to say that the resentment between peoples saddens me, it seems
it only aids the regulatory authorities in dividing and concouring us and
our sinceer belief in the gift of iboga(ine).<M
Again, I apologize for my own side of the negative thread and say I agree
with the above, in that fighting between ourselves doesn't help any.
But I still feel the same- that Marc's initial comment to Rik sounded
callous and I still wonder why he feels that if a junky can't come up with
the plane ticket to see him the junky ain't ready.
That was the whole of my "complaint" but now sadly it's gone way beyond
----- Original Message -----
From: <deartheo at ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2ndaryWithdrawalORaLLiNhEAD
Well, thanks for the input, but i should have clarified I was really
referring to long lasting opioids like methadone and orlaam. I have been
exercising consistently even during the main crunch the first 2-3 months;
and when the main sickness slowly subsided in waves, like a stock market
graph, the exhaustion has set in and the 2ndary withdrawal seems more
consistent but just their enough to remind me this is still not completely
over, which is frustrating when their is SO MUCH TO GET DONE, because it's
already suppossed to be over and done with so I can focus on piecing the
areas of my life back to where they need to be, which i'm finding is a very
tall order when the imaginary or 2ndary sickness stays so very consistent.
I am exhausted from this whole journey through the depths of a 263ml kick.
But one thing is certain, the iboga took away a large portion of the
unimaginable sickness that would have been there without the help of iboga.
At what point do I say, ok this is as good as it is going to get and i need
to just get through the shit and keep the shit to myself, hell, i'm tired of
hearing myself complain about it so I seldome bring it up to anyone.
I do want to say that the resentment between peoples saddens me, it seems it
only aids the regulatory authorities in dividing and concouring us and our
sinceer belief in the gift of iboga(ine). I'm afraid that it is resentment
neither parties involved trust one another enough to promote a healthy
dialoge that could encourage unity for what we all want: TO GET THIS
SOLUTION TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. But it seems patents, self-interest,
and personal attacks seem to be the order of the day, perhaps the spirit of
iboga could teach us a few things, last one to the patient office for iboga
for non-drug related theray is a rotten egg. I wish so much we could work
together, but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon, which is
really too bad.
Also, what would be the ideal training to become an iboga provider, besides
the obvious intern, which I think is a good idea to intern at more then one>
I hope everyone is doing well and staying strong. I agree that the slower a
methadone patient goes down the easier it will be. I crazy ass causious
when it comes to that, I would go down more then 1 ml every 3 weeks, to
stabalize a bit between going down again, so the sickness doesn't add up and
feedback and multiply; I found it was very easy for me to go down too
quickly and end up bitting off more then I could chew. As far as money
goes, I was able to get to YVR with my tax return, I had been unemployeed
for quite some time and had to hustle a bit, but if you aren't hurting
anyone(i don't think Marc was saying go do some violent crime to get the
money to recover; but considering the legal risks of even buying heroin
(felony), selling a little herb to get $500 is I wouldn't say is that risky
considering most of our pasts. I cannot speak for Marc, but I assume that
he means that if a addict/junky wants to kick the habit bad enough, they
will think outside of the box. I can't get into the fact that Marc hasn't
tried iboga on himself, but I think that has it's advantages and
disadvatages, but his staff has taken iboga so they are familier with the
experience personally. I do think the fact Tim Leary took what he promoted,
prevented 'mainstream' America from listening and understanding, so it gives
a certain objectivity that non-drug users need to be sure of what ever they
have to be sure of to actually listen to the facts. Becasue once the
non-drug using public understands the facts of this, it all goes downhill
from their. Why do we not talk to normal to get a pre-written letter on
their site for their members to choose and send to their representative.
I've gotten my TX(R)Joe Biden to talk directly to the NIH regarding iboga by
sending a simply e-mail. We can work more with our alies to get the tv only
watching public to understand that addicts/junkies and thier families are
suffering from that which can be prevented.
I appoligize if I'm out of line by all this, I look forward to any input
anyone may have, because I sure as hell don't have it figured out: )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D H [mailto:dave at phantom.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004, 11:51 AM
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 2ndaryWithdrawalORaLLiNhEAD
> well for me its like this: if i can distract myself with (exercise, bath,
> shower, sex, tv, whatever) and the symptoms go AWAY (for more than 15
> seconds - 5minutes), then its prolly all in my head.
> If I try the above and I become violently ill, sweating and shivering and
> uncontrollably start fantasizing large volumes of heroin flowing thru my
> viens, then I am most likely experiencing withdrawal.
> On 2/14/2004, "deartheo at ziplip.com" <deartheo at ziplip.com> wrote:
> >Can anyone with experience explain how you can tell the difference
> what's called 'secondary withdrawal' and simply a mental projection of a
> physical sickness (all in your head) in regards to opioids?
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: D H [mailto:dave at phantom.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004, 9:35 AM
> >> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >> Subject: [ibogaine] test
> >> this is a test
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