[ibogaine] Someone help this guy

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Sat Feb 14 18:55:25 EST 2004


>If I were you Preston, I would write Marc an Apology equivalent to this
onslaught of uncalled for criticism.<

I think not Randy, you aren't me and where do you get off?
(no apologies, just an explaination- I'm tired and not in the mood for
crap.)
I'll keep this short.
I have expressed my continued respect for what Marc is doing over and over.
I have told him how I personally feel about his first comment and subsequent
comments honestly and without hesitation. I am no sycophant and never will
be. I still feel it's callous to tell a streetbound or any junky that if
they can't raise $500 for a plane ticket they don't wanna really get off
drugs. I think you are reading way too much into what I have been saying
Randy. And I honestly feel that if Marc is the second largest contributor
towards ending prohibition today, maybe the money he's spending would be
even better spent on the IbogaHouse instead of whatever it's been spent on,
as prohibition continues at breakneck speed but he's got what he feels is a
"cure" for at least some people in his hands now.
    I was asking what costs $2500, not saying it was too much or little. I
didn't bring up the number, nor did I bring up the level of contributions.
And I haven't heard a word to change my mind about any of it.
    Sheeze.
    But then I tend to look at this differently than do you Randy,
obviously.
    Peace,
    Preston




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Hencken" <randyhencken at hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Someone help this guy


> Preston,
>
> I feel you are being unnecessarily harsh to Marc.  I understand that $500
is
> a lot of money to a lot of people.  However, if they truly feel that
> ibogaine is the treatment they want to try then they should do their best
to
> arrange the trip to Vancouver.  Marc is an individual trying to help
people
> out; he is not a government with responsibilities to help people out.  I
> feel that it is wise that his patients have to put in a minimum of effort
to
> get to his facility.  From my experience people do not appreciate what
they
> get for free.  Another piece of the picture is that ibogaine alone is
> certainly not enough to keep somebody clean.  Thus patients need to be
> resourceful post-ibo in order to stay clean.  In general, if an addict is
so
> bottomed out that they can't scrounge up a trip to BC, they probably don't
> have much resources to help keep them from relapsing upon their return.
>
> I have no doubt that it costs Marc $2500 a week to treat his patients.
> Preston, you have been hanging around this list for longer then me.  I am
> surprised at your arrogance/ignorance as to what it really costs to treat
> someone with ibogaine.  Sure, ibogaine itself isn't that expensive, but
when
> you start paying for, rent and staff and supplies it all adds up quickly.
> Marc's operation is not a "here are your pills go hang out in a cheap
hotel
> room by yourself" sort of deal.
>
> If I were you Preston, I would write Marc an Apology equivalent to this
> onslaught of uncalled for criticism.
>
> Peace,
> Randy
>
>
> >From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Someone help this guy
> >Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:15:02 -0500
> >
> > >No, if a person wants to quit, they make the effort. If you can't get
at
> >least the money to get to Vancouver, you are not ready to quit drugs in
any
> >case.<
> >
> >LOL, oh boy, please Marc, make me laugh some more...you are offering the
> >only way out of addiction there, so if people who are sick to death of
> >being
> >denigrated and spit upon by straights or simply tired of the other
problems
> >that can and often do arise from drug abuse but can't pay the ticket to
see
> >you, they're simply not ready, and are making excuses? LOL again! Sounds
> >like the same thing NA and CA and AA tried telling me a number of times,
> >only they weren't telling me to shell out $500 to drop by. They didn't
fix
> >everyone who went, but they helped a good number of them.
> >
> > >Wow, its not enough that IbogaTherapyHouse is the only serious full
scale
> >ibogaine treatment facility in the world that charges our patients
NOTHING
> >for our service (which costs me $2,500 minimum every week!), and that in
> >addition I am probably the world's leading financial CONTRIBUTOR TO THE
END
> >OF DRUG prohibition after George Soros,<
> >
> >What in the world this self-aggrandizement has to do with what I wrote
I've
> >no idea. My hands are shaking, but I don't know why I'm letting your
> >comments affect me so much. So you're rich, so what? I'm not, and what
I'm
> >saying is that when I needed help you wouldn't have been where I'd have
> >turned because I wouldn't have been able to afford to get there, at all.
> >Unless I went through withdrawal while I saved the money I scammed,
begged,
> >borrowed and stole that I would normally use to get high- but if I could
do
> >that, I wouldn't need to get to Canada and take ibogaine, nor would I
have
> >had to do the rest of it either- I'da done the cold turkey thing and been
> >done with it. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying you're lumping everyone
> >into the same catagory- they can't all do what you're expecting them to
but
> >I'm not as willing to write those who can't off as you seem to be.
> >
> > >I mean, I don't mind being responsible for ALMOST everything involved
> >with
> >a patient who is here for treatment, but I believe addicts who want to
> >change have to face up to the fact that painful, challenging decisions
HAVE
> >TO MADE, or ITS DEATH or FURTHER DISASTER.<
> >
> >Hmmm, where have I heard this before..."If you're not ready to do it our
> >way, you aren't ready...and you're gonna wind up in jail, an institution,
> >or
> >dead." Um, well, NA and AA and CA told me that often, and they were
wrong.
> >     Again, do the patients who visit IbogaHouse have to pay a second
$500
> >bucks to come visit that second time you mentioned? If they want to get
> >there they do I suppose. How 'bout that rent problem I mentioned, and all
> >the other bills we spoke about? Of course, if one hasn't an apartment
that
> >rent thing won't matter, but still, what about those other expenses? Are
> >you
> >also saying that $1000 also shouldn't be too hard, if one is serious
about
> >getting the ibogaine?
> >     There are many routes to change, and your are offering but one sole
> >way
> >Marc. I (still) think you're doing something really wonderful up there,
but
> >I think back on the various methods of treatment I tried over the years,
> >and
> >remember that I didn't pay for any of them, nor was I billed. I did have
to
> >get financial aid from the government, and granted, I wasn't offered
> >ibogaine. But you know what? They all told me they held the keys to the
one
> >sole, or at least best way to an end to addiction too.
> >     I'm curious Marc- would you lend your son $500 if he came to you
> >strung
> >out yet again and told you he'd found a(nuther) new treatment method and
> >this time for sure it would work and he'd be off heroin if only he could
> >get
> >there? Would you smile and hand it over or even buy him a ticket to a
> >foreign country and thank the good lord for the opportunity, or would you
> >remember all the other times he'd borrowed money (or stole it) telling
you
> >some story about his need, whether an honest need or not? I use him as an
> >example, and of course you are rich and rich people very obviously think
> >differently about life and things than I do, so maybe you would- but my
> >parents wouldn't. They were of the Tough Love crowd, telling me once when
I
> >was still a young kid after seeing some anti-drug thing in school in
> >Florida
> >that they wouldn't waste the money on sending me to Straight Inc, they'd
> >just call the cops- before I'd ever even tried smoking pot or any drug
for
> >that matter they were saying this. Think if I'd gone to them with holes
in
> >my limbs asking for a ticket they'd have done it? Nope. I know that when
I
> >was strung out on the streets no one in their right mind would hand me
$500
> >unless I'd sold them something or other.
> >     But this is giving me an inadvertent and unsettling look at the
> >"patients" you are treating Marc. I guess you are treating the richer
ones?
> >Is that the case here? I mean, who else is going to be able to come up
with
> >a quick $500 bucks for the ticket to reach you, which you seem to think
> >easy
> >or at least not so hard? I suppose the rich and better off need treating
> >too- at least they do if everyone continues to not allow them to just use
> >the fucking heroin and whatever other drugs they want to use and get on
> >with
> >their lives already without the FEAR and HATEMONGERING ...
> >     Oh, scuse me, sorry 'bout the yelling.
> >     I'm really trying to stay civil and not let this piss me off, but
I'm
> >not superman. I'm letting this really irritate me (and subsequently
causing
> >myself physical pain, an unfortunate result of stress for me and my
> >brutally
> >fucked up back).
> >
> > >I believe addicts who want to change have to face up to the fact that
> >painful, challenging decisions HAVE TO MADE, or ITS DEATH or FURTHER
> >DISASTER.<
> >
> >Tough love in other words. I think most addicts know alot about painful
and
> >challenging decisions already Marc.
> >And you're calling scraping together $500 bucks for a plane ticket (or
bus
> >or whatever mode) "challenging and painful?" Damn straight they are, and
> >not
> >everyone who is strung out and ready for help can do it. I'm not saying
you
> >aren't doing some good up there. I'll repeat myself- you have my utmost
> >respect for doing what you are Marc, but your attitude and way of
speaking
> >leaves me feeling...um...unsettled, that's about as nicely as I can put
it.
> >I'm having trouble even putting my finger on exactly what it is that's
> >upsetting me so much.
> >     How in the world it's costing you $2500 a week is puzzling to me
too.
> >Is
> >rent and scoring ibogaine for each patient really that expensive? I mean,
I
> >understand there are bills involved in running a building where people
> >sleep
> >and work and live and recover, but $2500 "minimum?" Sounds like a really
> >nice place. I'm realizing that while you are treating people for free,
you
> >aren't simply taking in everyone asking for help, are you?
> >     Why am I bothering with this? I don't know. Never mind. Keep helping
> >those who can afford to reach you (and pass your scholarship examination)
> >Marc, and I'll stop worrying about your, what seem to me, silly and cold
> >comments. The help must outweigh the attitude I suppose, but I'm
wondering
> >what kind of addicts you are treating there. Are the locals making up the
> >bulk of those treated or something? I just don't understand how you can
> >think $500 is something that a strung out junky should be able to come up
> >with in one lump sum. Maybe I'm reading to much of my own personal
history
> >into this.
> >
> >Peace,
> >Preston
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Marc Scott Emery
> >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:08 AM
> >Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Someone help this guy
> >
> >
> >Wow, its not enough that IbogaTherapyHouse is the only serious full scale
> >ibogaine treatment facility in the world that charges our patients
NOTHING
> >for our service (which costs me $2,500 minimum every week!), and that in
> >addition I am probably the world's leading financial CONTRIBUTOR TO THE
END
> >OF DRUG prohibition after George Soros,  Preston suggests that what the
> >hell, why don't I give out free airplane passes so that a person can get
> >here too.
> >
> >No, if a person wants to quit, they make the effort. If you can't get at
> >least the money to get to Vancouver, you are not ready to quit drugs in
any
> >case. I mean, I don't mind being responsible for ALMOST everything
involved
> >with a patient who is here for treatment, but I believe addicts who want
to
> >change have to face up to the fact that painful, challenging decisions
HAVE
> >TO MADE, or ITS DEATH or FURTHER DISASTER.
> >
> >Marc Emery
> >Iboga Therapy House
> >
> >Preston Peet <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >If you have to sell material possessions, beg
> > > family, panhandle on the street, those are small sacrifices
considering
> > > the benefit, but letting $500 travel cost stop you from a lifetime
> > > change is still making excuses.
> >
> >
> >Marc,
> >I love what you're doing up there and you have my utmost respect for
> >doing it, but I heartily disagree with the above flippant comment. As
> >someone who lives in poverty no matter how hard I seem to work and how
much
> >I seem to write, this is bogus. It's really easy for someone who has
money
> >to say, "oh, just go out and beg, borrow, sell your stuff or panhandle it
> >up" but it strikes me as a statement coming from ignorance of money
> >troubles. Maybe I'm wrong and you do know what poverty is like, but I
> >suspect it's been a while since you've experienced it.
> >No offense meant here, but I'm a bit irked by this statement. Most
> >families of addicts have written them off by the time they are desperate
> >enough to be seeking treatment (or so it was in my own case), and to tell
> >an
> >addict to "sell possessions" also assumes they have some left.
> >To me, $500 bucks is a lot of money still, I'm sorry to say,
> >particularly to shell out for a treatment that has not been proven to
work
> >for everyone, or even on the first try. (Is the required followup at
Iboga
> >house part of that initial $500 outlay? Or do the addicts pay another
fee?)
> >Of course it's possible to come up with sometimes, but right now I'd have
> >one hell of a lot of trouble doing so, and I'm not seeking treatment for
> >anything but pain either right now either.
> >What about- let's change the stupid fucking anti-drug laws and attitudes
> >that descriminate against addicts, making them feel like they HAVE to
stop
> >using to be respected, so addicts don't have to sell their shit or beg,
> >borrow or steal to get enough money to get (any sort of) treatment...in
> >your
> >case of provided treatment, in a foreign country no less.
> >But we've gone over this ground here before. How about offering Nik (or
> >Ann I guess- or how about both of them?) a plane ticket Marc instead of
> >telling him to sell off whatever he's got left of his stuff or prostate
> >himself once again to his/her families? He sounds desperate and they both
> >sound ready to try ibogaine. You're holding, so how about it? I'm not
> >expecting a direct answer really, as I can't remember the time you've
ever
> >replied directly to my inquiries, (though perhaps there was one time, but
> >I'm not sure when it was, and it wasn't all that friendly if I remember
> >correctly) but still, perhaps this time will be different- which of
course
> >shows I'm insane to try the same thing over and over and expect different
> >results.
> >Peace,
> >Preston
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Marc Scott Emery"
> >To:
> >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:22 PM
> >Subject: [ibogaine] Someone help this guy
> >
> >
> > > Iboga Therapy House does not require 'frequent' follow ups. We will
call
> > > the patient to keep track of the progress. The patient is required to
> > > come back for a second treatment 6 weeks to 6 months after the first
> > > treatment. There is no cost to the patient of the service here.
> > >
> > > www.ibogatherapyhouse.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Getting to Vancouver and return can be done for under $500 from almost
> > > anywhere in North America. If you have to sell material possessions,
beg
> > > family, panhandle on the street, those are small sacrifices
considering
> > > the benefit, but letting $500 travel cost stop you from a lifetime
> > > change is still making excuses.
> > >
> > > Marc Emery
> > > Iboga Therapy House
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ann b mullikin [mailto:think at francomm.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:06 AM
> > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] some one help this guy me too
> > >
> > > Thanks. The two of us have searched and continue to search online.
> > > We found buprenorphine and a doc who prescribes it (and methadone).
> > > Unfortunately this doc is overly cautious and starts out too low and
> > > titrates
> > > upward too slowly. Stanley Glick is conducting his animal studies up
at
> > > Albany Med Center which is about 45 minutes by car. He is testing
> > > MC-18 as everyone knows. He gives his email address freely on his
> > > website and I shall send queries to him. The FDA stands in his way of
> > > course. We found the Ibogaine Treatment House up in Canada which
> > > treats free of charge. The client must agree to travel there often for
> > > followup. My loved one has no money to travel (and I don't either).
> > > We're working on it, I just thought you might know................
> > >
> > > ann
> > > think at francomm.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:18 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] some one help this guy me too
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 2/12/04 2:29:37 PM, think at francomm.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > >Where do you find these low cost providers? I have a loved one in
> > > > >
> > > > >desparate need of help.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > If I were you I would insist that my loved ones start looking and
> > > asking.
> > > If
> > > > they don't have the desire to look why should a provider have the
> > > desire
> > > to
> > > > treat. How do you look for anything these days?
> > > >
> > > > Howard
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
> >
> >
> >
>
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