tell me about getting off methadone
ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Thu Feb 12 13:39:59 EST 2004
>man somneone please tell me about their getting off methadone<
I got off methadone.
I did it from 40 mils.
I went down 5 mils every other week, until I got to my last week's supply of
take home bottle of 5 mils.
I kept those bottles for a couple of years before drinking them for pain
That didn't work so well, but I was done with the methadone. It sucked
but using the tactics I described before, I made it off, without ibogaine
too. But ibogaine would possibly make it easier to do. If you could get it
cheaply, which I wasn't able to do and couldn't afford to simply fly off to
Canada or to some other foreign country. People kept telling me, "why are
you doing it that way, just take ibogaine" to which I'd reply with either,
"no, I'm ok this way," or "ok, got some handy?" But no one ever did.
You can read more about my thoughts on the stuff below (a repost for the
old hands here, but new for some I suspect- and there are a lot of links
following page 2 of this at the link provided- I'm wishing you well Nik-
m is for methadone
by Preston Peet (ptpeet at nyc.rr.com) - January 14, 2002
Temperature's rising, fever is high, can't see no future, can't see no sky.
My feet are so heavy, so is my head. I wish I was a baby. I wish I was dead.
Cold turkey has got me on the run. Body is aching, goose-pimple bone. Can't
see nobody. Leave me alone. My eyes are wide open, I can't get to sleep.
One thing I'm sure of, I'm in at the deep freeze.
Cold Turkey has got me on the run. 36 hours rolling in pain, praying to
someone, free me again. Oh, I'll be a good boy, so please make me well. I'll
promise you anything, get me out of this hell!
Cold turkey has got me, oh, oh, oh, Cold turkey has got me on the run.
~ ~Cold Turkey, John Lennon/Yoko Ono (October 20, 1969)
Methadone (meth'e don')-n.[< it's chemical name] a synthetic drug, less
habit-forming than morphine, used in treating morphine addicts.
~ ~ Webster's New World Compact School and Office Dictionary, 1982 [revised
This is pure unadulterated bullshit. Ask any methadone patient which drug is
easier to kick - Heroin or Methadone - and they will tell you, quite
rightly, that Methadone is the more hellish "drug" of the two.
While Methadone has no discernible high, and affects the body for longer
(keeping withdrawals at bay for longer than heroin), once a person is
feeling the lack of Methadone, the difference is clear. Detoxing from
Methadone takes more time, a month or more at minimum, as compared to the
week or two maximum for Heroin.
Patients in Methadone Maintenance Treatment (MMT) must take their medication
every single day, or they get sick. Clearly, Methadone is habit-forming,
although admittedly in every case, heroin habits are already formed, or a
person cannot (or will not) be placed into MMT. So, 'less habit-forming' is
semantic in the above definition, and blatantly untrue.
In 1939 two scientists working for I.G. Farben, Otto Eisleb, and O.
Schaumann, at Hoechst-Am-Main, Germany, discovered an opioid analgesic which
after numbering compound 8909, they named Dolantin (Pethidine). Hopes that
it would be a new, non-addictive pain reliever, to take the place of
Morphine, just like Diamorphine (heroin), before it, came to naught.
However, because it was an extremely effective analgesic, the Germans used
the drug extensively throughout War World II.
(Unless otherwise noted, facts are taken from The Methadone Briefing, edited
by Andrew Preston, London: Waterbridge House, 1996).
>From 1937 through the Spring and Summer of 1938, two other scientists
working for I.G. Farben, Max Bockmuhl, and Gustav Ehrart, were working with
similar compounds to Dolantin. Bockmuhl and Ehrart were searching for drugs
with certain characteristics, such as "water soluble hypnotics (sleep
inducing) substances, effective drugs to slow the gastrointestinal tract to
make surgery easier, effective analgesics that were structurally dissimilar
to Morphine-in the hopes that they would be non-addictive, and escape the
strict controls on opiates."
On September 11, 1941, Bockmuhl and Ehrhart filed a patent application for,
and were formally credited with, the discovery of Hoechst 10820 (Polamidon),
which eventually became known as Methadone.
In the Autumn of 1942, I.G. Farben handed over the drug, codenamed "Amidon",
to the German military for further testing.
The Nazis did not make any attempt to mass produce the drug, unlike
Pethidine, which by 1944 was being produced at an annual rate of 1600 kg.
One reason for this was given by Dr. K K Chen, an early American researcher,
after the war. He said that a former employee of the I. G. Farben factory
had written him, saying that the Germans had discontinued Polamidon use due
to its side effects. Chen decided that the Nazis had been giving their test
subject doses that were too high, causing nausea, overdose, etc.
After the war ended, the Allies divided up the spoils. I. G. Farben was in
an US-occupied zone so all its "intellectual capital" (patent, trade names,
and the like) came under US management. Along with the formula for Zyklon B,
a nerve gas that the Nazis used in some of their extermination programs,
Methadone was now an American possession.
One very common misconception is that Dolophine, one of the very first trade
names given to the drug, was derived from "Adolph", in honor of the dictator
himself by the Nazis, and that in Germany it was called "Adolophine." The
fact of the matter seems to be this name was not given the drug until after
the war, by the Eli-Lilly pharmaceutical company in America, which was given
control of the drug.
If there was any honoring of Hitler going on, it was by the Americans who
invented this urban legend. Dolophine most likely derives from the French
words "dolor" (pain), and "fin" (end).
Eli-Lilly, along with other companies in the US and Great Britain, began
clinical trials of Dolophine, marketing the drug as a pain killer and cough
suppressant. In 1947, Isabel et al, published their findings after
experimenting on both animals and humans. After giving doses of up to
200mg., four times a day, they found that there was rapid tolerance, and
euphoria. They also discovered that there were a bevy of adverse side
effects, such as, "signs of toxicity . . . inflammation of the skin . . .
deep narcosis and . . . a general clinical appearance of illness." Once
again, just like the Nazis, the scientists were giving doses that were far
Morphine addicts responded well to Dolophine, but authorities decided that
it was potentially highly addictive. As reports of Dolophine addicts started
coming in, thedrug was taken of the market, only to resurface in the 1960s,
now known as Methadone.
Promoted by Drs. Marie Nyswynder, and Vincent Dole in the mid-1960s as the
most promising method of treating heroin addiction, MMT began to receive
more attention from the medical community, and gradually limited tests were
begun to gauge MMT's efficacy in treating hardcore heroin addicts. Reading
through the National Institute of Health's Consensus Development Statement,
titled "Effective Medical Treatment Of Opiate Addiction", not much, it
seems, has changed. US scientists and doctors still have a lack of
compassion for their "test subjects" that echoes the Nazi doctors. In the
Diagnosis of Opioid Addiction section, the report states that if an addict
has failed after all tests to convince the doctor he/she is really a heroin
addict, the doctor can obtain further evidence by administering a "Naloxone
(Narcan) challenge test to induce withdrawal symptoms." This instantly
induces withdrawals, and is what paramedics give overdose victims when
trying to resuscitate them dead on the sidewalk. I've seen it given to a
friend, and he was definitely not happy when jerking awake, sick as a dog.
It is sadistic torture giving Naloxone to someone simply, to prove that
they're are an addict.
There have also been allegations of pharmaceutical companies using mentally
ill patients in drug experiments, as reported in the New York Post (January
19, 1998). Alexander Cockburn made a comparison between Methadone and Prozac
in the New York Press (January 27-February 2, 1998), where he likened
Methadone patients to "compliant slaves." He contended that Methadone is one
long running experiment at the sake of the addict, and hir freedoms.
If there is one thing that I am not, it's a compliant slave. But what I am
is someone who was always at risk of going out and banging a bag or three of
heroin (maybe, somewhere deep inside even still am, but I don't buy that
"I've got a disease" 12-step rap, no offense to 12-steppers. Whatever it
Every time I would quit, eventually the urge to score would be overwhelming
and irresistible. I have seen reports, heard anecdotal evidence, and
personally experienced the incessant relapsing, the days of sickness, pain,
and cold, utter hell of having been clean and doing well, to only on a whim
go out and throw it all away. Again and again I had seen it and done it. I
know that it can be impossible for some people to stop and objectively look
at what they are doing, to have that be enough to arrest their habit. Like
the idea or not, Methadone can and has saved a lot of lives.
Of course, one has to already have the "high motivation for change" that has
been recently reported to be associated with successful MMT. Otherwise the
patient can and often does continue to use anything and everything else,
including dope, and I see it all the time. Some may take this to mean that
after all is said and done, it's a person's will power keeping them in line,
so why should they need the Methadone, except as a crutch?
Take a look at TV some time, at all the ads being run for new allergy pills,
new diet pills, new hair-grow pills, new all kinds of pills. Most, if not
all come with long drawn out warnings of adverse side effects, such as head
aches, nausea, stomach cramping, and fetal deformity in unborn children. Yet
these are all for medications that are most certainly not needed by anyone,
for any reason, except to make life a little easier, if one can believe that
from the purported side-effects the ads warn of.
Methadone is pushed the same way: "Why suffer kicking dope and getting
arrested when you can have our drug, cheap, supplied you, that will allow
you a 'normal' life? Never mind the awful kicking you may someday face, but
why quit? Stay on it for life if need be, you are an addict!" This is the
It should be obvious that if Methadone does what it is advertised, than of
course folks should actively support it's dissemination. But to me, a person
currently dealing with the realization that methadone only put off the hell
of kicking, with a much harder kick awaiting me when the decision to end its
use was recently reached, it isn't obvious. Who is making the money from the
production and sales of Methadone? Why is Methadone more preferable than
simple Heroin maintenance?
(Other than for the blatant advantage of no longer taking the drug, made
illegal by the same folks who made MMT legal, that initiated the addiction
in the first place.)
There is also the fact that people who do drugs, illegal drugs, are by
definition, law-breakers. Law-breakers are in turn potential subversives, as
they are not inclined to toe the official line. What better way to get
control of a whole block of possible terrorists, rabble-rousers and
plain-old troublemakers than to arrange to supply their highly-addictive
drugs to them directly, through established clinics where they must come to
get their "fix", where it is easy to keep records of all kinds, medical,
psychological, and otherwise on them all? Eli-Lilly is renowned for their
concentrating on the psycho-active drug market, like Prozac, so mightn't
that be a worrying sign in regards to the control factors inherent in giving
out their addictive Methadone to addicts?
These are valid points, and they indeed worry me, giving me much pause for
thought. Especially in light of all the evidence of CIA, and other
intelligence agencies being involved with the smuggling of drugs over the
last thirty or forty years into the US, thereby contributing to the cause
and effect cycle that is evident in the whole War Against Some Drug
scenario, including the drug treatment industry. Methadone can and does
improve the "quality of life" of both the addict and those around him/her.
Yet it is a synthetic creation, and certainly not as clean as heroin could
be were it legal and under regulative control like alcohol, rather than in
the hands of hoodlums on street corners cutting it with poison and shit,
creating fodder for the private-prison/law enforcement/military-industrial
I spent a good number of years strung out. I make no bones about it, and
accept the responsibility. I swore many times that when I was ready to quit,
there would be no way I'd allow myself to go on MMT. But in 1996, after
years of hell, going cold turkey over and over only to use again,
consistently failing to quit on my own, MMT seemed the only way out, to get
away from the authorities butting into my life, and to avoid the sickness I'
d have to face kicking yet again. Now I'm finding that I've only put off the
kicking, and what I'm now going through is only the beginning.
The only good thing I can personally say about Methadone is that I was able
to use it to break old habits and change my perspective, and stop getting
arrested by asshole cops who made the stupidest jokes I've ever heard, and
who locked me up in filthier, more dangerous places than even I'd imagined
I certainly never, ever got 'high' nor dopey from Methadone, regardless of
how it affects some folk. There was no fun to it at all, it just helped me
keep away from heroin. But for the War Against Some Drugs and modern
prohibition, maybe it wouldn't have had to be. I wouldn't begrudge anyone
using it in the same fashion that I did, and it can do what it is supposed
to if the user wishes it to. I certainly wouldn't advise it except that for
now, there are not all that many alternatives, except abstinence, which is
not for everyone.
I was a model patient, only going to the clinic once a week to pick up a
week's supply. But I refuse to be a statistic for the system, nor their
fodder any longer.
----- Original Message -----
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] some one help this guy me toopt2
ya same question were and why are they so expensive ibogaine itself is not
that expensive. Are these for profit i take it. And also Has anyone thought
of opening a NO-PROFIT ibogaine clinic that ngives basic treatment and
accept vollunteers if i thought that i could survive meaning if i had a warm
bed and 3 squares a day i would love to help people get off these hard
narcotics.well anyways i need to focuss on not focussing on the pain right
now yes 35 mgs is alot but i got a boat load of withdrawl im dealin with
right now and man i almost went back fuckin up today i get take homes but
thats eeven more dangerous cuz you get so sick and you have relief sittin in
a bottle next to you cuz otherwise i would have to get up to go cop wich i
dont have any money anyways. man somneone please tell me about their getting
off methadone ive kiucked heroin and morphine many times but this methadone
is the work of the devil i tell ya. Seriously i am not religois but why does
ou! r body get so physically dependant on opiates i mean i know about the
receptors and all but is it the lack of receptor sites being filled or what
is it i swear its almost like withdrawl is like coming down from a coke
binge cuppled with anxiety and the flu while you feel like someone jumped
out of the closet and scared you and the feeling just fucking stays there.
So when can i expect to feel atleast tolerable if i was to stop taking
methadone cold turkey tommorow? Well thats all from me if you can tell me
of a ibogaine clinic close to windsor or somewere close in canada let me
know B.C. is too far. way to far man i could maybe if i pulled alot of
strings get $300 bucks tops you know plus alittlew more for food and smokes
but thats about it! peace love sharing and caring your brother NIK
ann b mullikin <think at francomm.com> wrote:
Where do you find these low cost providers? I have a loved one in
desparate need of help.
b1rdland at surferznet.net
> In a message dated 2/11/04 4:53:06 PM, goosebumpz2002 at yahoo.com writes:
> >i gotta tell ya part of me is screemin for some relief the wiothdrawl is
> >bad i went down two mgs a day for a month then a mg a day till last week
> >were i have stopped the detox to let my body recoupe i am so sick but i
> >will not quit i am goin to get this pissed off two headed giant gorrila
> >off my back but hey man is there anyone around i can talk to i have noone
> >to relate to and
> > thats the hardest part. but i think its great the stuff you have done
> >and still do you have been an inspiration to many includiong me i almost
> >didnt writ! e this because of my ego/pride but fuck it i need help peace
> >love caring and sharing
> > your brother NIK!
> Why don't you contact one of the lower end cost ibogaine treatment
> and get dosed. Provided you can pass the medical testing, the relief
> be spectacular, particularly from the low dose of methadone you indicate.
> Possibly, you can get a scholarship to healing visions, one of the high
> treatment providers. Hopefully, they may consider some subsidized
> their patients.
> Howard S. Lotsof
> Dora Weiner Foundation
> POB 10032
> Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
> dir tel 718 442-2754
> dir fax 718 442-1957
> email, dwf123 at earthlink.net
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