[ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Germán DC gcaldelas at fibertel.com.ar
Tue Aug 31 10:25:22 EDT 2004

my background:
 I went to the jungle Amazonas to meet the Ayahuasca in 1994.
Later in 1996 i met S. Daime´s group.
I guess Daniel is a "fardado" or at least he´s close to Santo Daime´s group.
(Santo Daime means literally "Saint Give Me" :-))
Don´t you have Chacruna, Rainha, Psycotria Viridis, available there?
There´s a reason to call it Rainha (Queen), and the fields where it grows
are called Reinados (kingdoms or should I say: queendoms).
Jurema, does not participate in Santo Daime´s brew. But you can make another
They (SD) use just Jagube (ayahuasca) and Rainha, to make all the Degraus,
Dobraus and Mel (mmmh!). Changing just, proportions and concentrations.
I understand that in Netherlands there are official Church Chapters of Santo
The amount of Daime you take in a "trabajo", depends of what kind of trabajo
is, and who is on command. You could be given even more that you can easily
"handle", in a "trabalho de estrela" (star work) you´ll be given one (or
more) big copo (glass), of the brew, (i mean a BIG). But it is not (IT IS
NOT) a shamanic type of thing, it is a "trabajo de corriente", closer than a
Kardecist kind of thing, so you don´t "react alone", the brew will open
energetically you and your fellows and "something" like a circuit, an
egregor, is created, they´ll keep on singing/dancing (in an extremely neat &
ordered way).
So there´s no place to the "shamanic individual trip" (for the moment).
You ought to keep the "form" but if you deserve it, you´ll be grasp by "the
Force" and you´ll do your trip (your shamanic individual trip), and then
it´s OK, they enjoy and support you.
If your subttles body are mature you´ll go without faint, you´ll keep on
dancing and/or singing while you´re tripping, if not enough practised you´ll
just faint or fall to the floor, and you´ll do it from there.
You could make the brew a lot more visual or psychedellic adding Toé
(brugmansia or datura), but you´ll have something of your own creation, with
a different "toxycology" than Daime. You have to know in the community some
pregnant women may drink Daime (before, during and after
pregnancy/chilbirth), so close attention to toxicity.
Harmala may give a more "earthbound" sensation, but again you MUST diet a
few days, before and after, your body chemistry would be VERY altered
The firsts contacts with this force is difficult, hard to understand, you
have to overcome a lot of personal resistance. We are born in the
Instant-Quick society, and this is a process
¿why this people tell me what to do, and what not to do? In some moments, is
not the people is GAIA.
When you are "pegado" (= glued?), (being under the effects) you start to
"aparelhar" (i wont translate that), something like you "start to develope"
another "organs", contact other dimensions, or something that is needed for
spiritual life, 6º sense, or... well, misteries of the Mestre (master).
>Like in a physical trainning, you improve day after day, thru your

I just want to point that a recreational trip, even with a IMAO mix,
is different than tripping with Daime, (not better not worse, just

if you trip with Daime is not only because the"right dose", is a sum of
things, and the result is always: if you tripped, you are "merecedor". (you
are worth it) It´s Grace, a Blessing.
SD make the brew in an old fashion way, no machines involved, with constant
singing, males working with jagube, and women with rainha, they mix in the
So when you drink it, you are drinking a sacrament wich has been made as a
sacrament, and I dare to guess that it would be brought by some fardado, "in
Hand" till the church.
I hope you don´t mind the mix between spanish & portugues.

Out of topic but interesting.
I love this list


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sara Glatt" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

> Hi Jasen,
> Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
> mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.
> It isn't about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
> are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.
> Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
> medicinal.
> Dear Friends,
> It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
> demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on
> before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
> have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with.
> want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us
> its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
> processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied
> a 'no escape' sensation.
> These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person
> quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I
> had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took
> but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced,
> I would like to tell you a little bit about it.
> The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
> Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online
> for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
> concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
> the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
> Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
> and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone's
> guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not
> by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?
> Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis
> 10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
> was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
> presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
> Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
> after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
> Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
> any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about
> hours.
> I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara's house, and take a new dose there
> with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
> water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
> smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
> much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful.
> about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
> that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
> gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were
> in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
> unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
> about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps
> a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
> couch with a blanket over herself.
> I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
> dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was
> to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
> that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
> very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my
> I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned
> the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
> been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I
> laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.
> I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
> doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
> freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would
> give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
> dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those
> who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
> friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes
> such a dose is now available!
> This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
> few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would
> to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
> financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The
> I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
> the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
> during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to
> that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large
> it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
> the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself
> quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
> the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
> have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
> this case Sara's home, which is a place where healing takes place, and
> Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make
> work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
> like to help her this way.
> We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:
> Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design at wxs.nl
> Sara Glatt : sara119 at xs4all.nl
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
> Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2004 8:23
> Aan: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]
> >the idea of tripping whilst hanging
> out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<
> Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
> Sara's letter Jasen.
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

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