[ibogaine] Religion and Mindvox was Re: [ibogaine] question
vector620022002 at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 8 08:26:27 EDT 2004
Thanks! But I didn't say it! :) I'm cutting and pasting the answers to
what the chaos symbol means. I don't claim to get all of it, but this
whole place is cool as fuck :)
Maybe it's changing me and I'm getting weirder, but I don't find
Mindvox or any of the people here weird anymore. Interesting yes.
Different for sure :)
--- HSLotsof at aol.com wrote:
> Ibogaine is art.
> Beautifully said vector.
> In a message dated 8/8/04 6:21:34 AM, vector620022002 at yahoo.com
> > Am I becoming tech support? I want a @mindvox.com account already!
> > Carla whatever it is that you're reading here you go from the first
> > results on the first page of google.
> > .:vector:.
> > Peter Carroll: "If you want a one-line definition with which most
> > Chaosists would not disagree, then I offer the following: Chaosists
> > usually accept the meta-belief that belief itself is only a tool
> > achieving effects; it is not an end in itself."
> > Meta-belief is an important concept in Chaos Magic. It is the idea
> > belief is nothing more than a state of mind, and as such, can be
> > manipulated by the will. Belief is a psychological state that can
> > deliberately self-manipulated, although it has the power to shape
> > own reality, and sometimes other people's reality as well. It is
> > means, not the end; the vehicle, not the destination.
> > The practice of meta-belief confers an awful freedom and an awful
> > responsibility. Practicing the temporary adoption of an obsessive
> > belief system that allows for the possibility of accomplishing
> > effects, and then the abandonment of that belief system upon the
> > completion of the work. Subsequent, and even contradictory belief
> > systems are adopted in turn as need or desire may dictate. To do
> > (and not go completely insane) it is of paramount importance that
> > one particular set of beliefs is ever accepted as being ultimately
> > true.
> > The essence of magic is non-verbal and personally unique. The key
> > the imagination, and the doors are the altered states of
> > You can meditate, burn all the candles and chant all the
> > you want, but if your mind isn't transported to another place in
> > process, it isn't going to amount to much.
> > There are myriad ways to alter one's conscious perceptions in
> > directions, and part of the journey is learning how your
> > functions and how to alter it in accordance with your intention.
> > Like a method actor, a Chaos Magician seeks to circumvent everyday
> > reality and suspend disbelief. To do this he or she uses the tools
> > the actor: setting, costumes, props, words, sounds, and especially
> > Stanislavsky called emotional memory. Any powerful, transformative
> > experience can be used to tap into the emotional memory, including
> > pain, confusion, elation, disgust and ecstasy -- especially in
> > paradoxical combinations.
> > As a result, Chaos Magic is magic without limitations. Chaos magic
> > not a new system, or a rehash of older systems, or any kind of
> > at all. It's a new attitude. It's a different way of looking at the
> > of Magic -- as an expression of Art above all other considerations.
> > Like so many Artists, Chaos Mages tend toward an attitude of
> > since a great part of the creation of Art is the pursuit of
> > and pride in oneself and one's creations when excellence is
> > An elitist attitude (as long as it's balanced with compassion and
> > doesn't desend into bigotry) is forgivable in the Artist, for
> > it no great work of Art would ever be realized.
> > The practice of Chaos Magic can be destablizing, because it's
> > to deconstruct belief. Like psychedelic drugs, it can drastically
> > your reality. So it's not for the squeamish, or for those who fear
> > lurks in their deepest selves, for it is from those deep selves
> > the Chaos Mage forges his or her gods and demons.
> > Such dualistic concepts as "white" or "black" magic are not
> > to Chaos Magic, at least not in the sense of being good or evil.
> > is a force, like electromagnetism, and has no inherent moral
> > Peter Carroll wrote in Liber Null, "The end results of either path
> > likely not to be dissimilar, for the paths meet in a way that is
> > impossible to describe. The so-called 'middle way', or path of
> > knowledge, consisting of the mere second hand acquisition of ideas,
> > an excuse to do neither and leads nowhere." As a result, Chaos
> > Magicians tend toward pushing the extremes, finding balance by
> > from pole to pole, rather than seeking "moderation."
> > --- Carla Barnes <carlambarnes at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> --- HSLotsof at aol.com wrote:
> >>> The Bwiti be with you and protect you and love you.
> >>> The rest of us will
> >>> follow. This is the chapel. We await the telling
> >>> of your adventure.
> >>> Howard
> >> What Howard wrote made me think about something that
> >> I've wondered about before but never wrote to the
> >> list. I've spent probably 3 hours looking through
> >> Mindvox which I've done before so many times and
> >> always get the same feeling from it which is that
> >> there are so many pieces in it that go into all these
> >> directions and some of it is really funny and some of
> >> it is beautiful, some of it is ugly and obnoxious but
> >> it's like this strange temple and every time I look
> >> there is some piece somewhere that's changed, so some
> >> of you are obviously doing something with it.
> >> This one tag line at the top caught my attention and
> >> made me keep thinking and reading through links
> >> tonight.
> >> Psychedelic Temple of The Apocalypse
> >> Then someone whos name I've forgot and I'm sorry :-(
> >> wrote that everything Patrick is doing is shamanism,
> >> then there have been so many messages to the list
> >> before about this but the one I remember when someone
> >> asked what Mindvox is a long time ago, the answer was
> >> 'Patrick's brain blown through a cuisanart' and that
> >> made me laugh but I'm not laughing anymore, I keep
> >> thinking about it and don't understand because to use
> >> even another quote and I'm sorry I'll stop with
> >> quotes, is 'Mindvox is a video game for
> >> schizophrenics'
> >> What I mean is even something as small as those tag
> >> lines. I can sit there and click them for hours which
> >> I have done when I'm stoned and they keep coming with
> >> new ones. Are there hundreds of them, thousands? The
> >> whole site is huge, it looks like something that took
> >> a lot of effort and time to make and what is the
> >> purpose for it exactly? I mean the main Mindvox site
> >> itself not Mindvox Ibogaine and the list, which are
> >> beautiful but have a definite reason for being here.
> >> Then I keep reading a clicking and keep getting more
> >> questions. The main Mindvox logo is a really beautiful
> >> psychedelic symbol of chaos. Then I click open
> >> ibogaine.mindvox.com and Dave Hunter is painting
> >> purple symbols of chaos, then that religion in
> >> slovenia I'm sorry I don't know the official name or
> >> is it Sacrament of transition? Has another symbol of
> >> chaos.
> >> The 'Purple Shit' Patrick talks about, now it's
> >> appearing in Dave Hunter's art, it shows up on Erowid
> >> dedicated to Patrick and Howard:
> >> http://www.erowid.org/culture/art/artists_h/art_hunter_dave.shtml
> >> At first it was only Patrick doing this, but it's like
> >> it is spreading all over the place, symbols of chaos
> >> and purple, so what I am really wondering is what does
> >> all of it mean? What are you doing exactly, when I
> >> look up the symbol of chaos it has so many different
> >> answers too, the closest thing the writing agrees on
> >> is that its a combination of white and black magic and
> >> a non religion, non belief system, individual
> >> spirituality, which makes as much sense as Mindvox
> >> does. Which makes no sense. The rest of the writing
> >> agrees on nearly nothing, it can't even agree on where
> >> the symbol came from or what it means at all!
> >> What I'm very respectfully asking is, what does it all
> >> mean to all of you? Patrick? You are very smart, very
> >> funny, but don't ever answer anything. Dave Hunter
> >> wrote a answer once to the list when he started
> >> painting the 'Purple Shit' about god through
> >> photoshop.
> >> The last thing I read was Trajectories which I love
> >> and always blows me away because it's such a huge
> >> combination of everything that says everything at once
> >> while saying nothing, I read it and feel like I just
> >> took acid and I don't mean to kiss your ass Patrick,
> >> youre a really brilliant writer but is this how your
> >> brain is working now, most of the time, all the time?
> >> Its like you are connecting everything to everything
> >> all at once.
> >> What does all of it mean? I'm right back to what
> >> Howard wrote about this being a Temple and it feels
> >> that way which is a great feeling but I've been here 3
> >> years at least now and I still don't get it and feel
> >> like I spend a lot of my time inside this mystery
> >> thinking that all of it will make sense someday but
> >> none of it ever does, it only gets weirder and keeps
> >> spreading!
> >> I'd still like to know what is the deal with the
> >> symbol of chaos? What does it mean? Since nowhere I go
> >> online where I look it up agrees with any other
> >> definition of it, what does it mean to you Patrick?
> >> You started up with it and now it's all over the place
> >> so obviously it must mean something to your friends
> >> who are painting it and putting it everywhere,
> >> what?????
> >> I think what I'm saying is thanks to all of you and
> >> love to everyone on the list :-) :-) And a lot of love
> >> to Preston!!!!! :-)
> >> Carla B
> >> http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/
> >> staticpage%3fpagename=Trajectories
> >> Copyright © 2001-2004, Patrick Karel Kroupa
> >> All Rights Reserved
> >> REINTEGRATION
> >> It was a bright day in the middle of the night, and I
> >> was walking down this road which was like an
> >> escalator. Then I saw these people, and kept trying to
> >> talk to them, but already it was too late, and my
> >> watch was running backwards. And these midgets in
> >> latex tutu's starting scampering across the ceiling
> >> which dissolved into an ocean, and I was drowning . .
> >> . but then at the bottom of the ocean I walked across
> >> the floor and opened this oyster which had a pearl in
> >> it; and I felt all warm and fuzzy, and then a meadow
> >> appeared . . .
> >> . . . and I understood, and wow, this is so cool, it's
> >> just like love and sunshine, and puppies, and
> >> ice-cream, and sex, except kinda like all at once... I
> >> never knew I loved having sex with puppies while
> >> eating ice-cream in the sunshine-- err, back that up a
> >> sentence or two, that's not exactly what I meant. And
> >> as I thought that, I realized that maybe my thinking,
> >> was all thunk out, so this chasm blows open and I was
> >> in a graveyard . . . after I got done clubbing the
> >> baby-seals, it seemed that it was beyond too late --
> >> even though time had stopped running backwards, and
> >> started moving sideways in spirals -- I have an
> >> appointment to give blood, seems I hafta go face-first
> >> through this lawnmower, and then I'm scheduled to tour
> >> at least 3 layers of hell before lunch, and--
> >> . . . and my spirit guide held my hand, and we walked
> >> on the water, over to where all my dead relatives were
> >> lined-up; they delivered a stern anti-drug lecture,
> >> while showing me ScArY MoViES of what my life would be
> >> like if I didn't stop doing drugs. But then God came
> >> down from heaven, gave me a big kiss, and dissolved
> >> into this shower of golden-light, and I knew that all
> >> the answers I was seeking through drugs were always
> >> inside of me, and I was healed.
> >> Furthermore, to Clarify:
> >> Now obviously, this explains why Gestalt is mostly
> >> correct, EMDR works some of the time, and Primal
> >> Therapy has the right idea. Schroedinger saw some
> >> light in the darkness, Neitzsche saw darkness in the
> >> light, and Hitler, Jesus, and Max Planck discussed it
> >> over tea one day, with the Mad Hatter acting as an
> >> independent peer-review committee, and Dostoyevsky
> >> taking down the minutes -- but he wasn't paying
> >> attention a lotta the time; this is okay 'cuz Godel
> >> had a parabolic mic aimed at the whole-entire
> >> scenario. Also, furthermore, this is only accurate on
> >> every other Tuesday, of leap-years, unless Peter
> >> Melchior manages to reintegrate John Lilly, and
> >> Timothy Leary gives him some therapy.
> >> Because sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, unless
> >> Freud didn't say that, uhm, what did he say again, oh
> >> yeah, "you people are all basically just totally
> >> fucked up. Now, who took my cocaine, and where the
> >> hell did my niece go... I'd call Sherlock Holmes to
> >> figure this out, but he's off somewhere banging-up
> >> speedballs. He's repressed anyway, and really needs to
> >> get laid." Of course, this is only metaphorically a
> >> parable, because Sherlock Holmes was a real person,
> >> whereas Freud was a strung-out champion of law and
> >> order, only in books, and on the astral planes.
> >> But anyway, as anyone can see this only works on the
> >> primary and secondary levels of quaternary dualism,
> >> unless it doesn't. Christian Science, the Koran,
> >> Buddhism, Shivaism, Scientology, and the Muslims, are
> >> seeing at least part of the spectrum of possibility,
> >> except when they're not. But it really doesn't matter
> >> because Socrates knew it -- tho' he didn't write it
> >> down -- Plato (who was a whiny little fuckhead)
> >> plagiarized it, and Aristotle retrieved and refined
> >> it.
> >> Strings are a good theory, but sometimes Viagra works
> >> better, because as Heisenberg explained, the
> >> Uncertainty Principle doesn't really start to throb
> >> unless the strange attractor is wearing a mini and
> >> heels, in which case non-linear dynamics will cause
> >> the butterfly with broken wings to nose-dive, this
> >> will make Voltaire depressed a lot of the time; but
> >> ultimately it's all-good because when Freud dropped
> >> the cigar, Fromm picked it up and re-lit it, Sartre
> >> stuck it in his mouth but never inhaled, and Jung
> >> understood all of it, in its entire totality, some of
> >> the time -- even though he didn't smoke cigars.
> >> Baudelaire and Rimbaud lived it, Shelley kinda flopped
> >> around a lot and drowned, but his wife nailed it;
> >> Byron also nailed a lot of things -- lacking a
> >> camcorder and a web site, on occasion he even wrote
> >> some of them down. Tesla and Willhelm Reich had it all
> >> written out in invisible ink on SekRet DocumenTz,
> >> hidden under an orgone accumulator, until THEY, THEM,
> >> and THOSE PEOPLE, ruined everything. Escher took the
> >> remnants and made a moebious-strip out of them. Once
> >> the colors got all smeared, C.S. Lewis and Dr. Seuss
> >> summed it all up in one cohesive whole, understandable
> >> by any child; however, when most adults try to
> >> cross-connect the spirals of rainbows, they just end
> >> up with mud.
> >> Lately though, I'm starting to have a lot of dreams
> >> about sex. This means its time to take a really long
> >> plane-ride. In conclusion, black-lights are pretty
> >> groovy, but somehow -- for me anyway -- lava-lamps,
> >> just get real old, real fast. The 'Dead mahn --
> >> Yahhhhhhhh -- Uhm, I don't like the dead; it's not an
> >> option dude, they're the Dead Mahn, yahhhhh! -- Uhm,
> >> okay, I guess, do you have any Nine Inch Nails?
> >> Obviously,
> >> The MindVox servers are located 100 feet underground
> >> in New Mexico, Utah, and Pig's Knuckle, OH. They are
> >> fully distributed, entirely redundant, and completely
> >> recombinant. Vox is INVINCIBLE, Invisible and
> >> psychotic -- it enters the mind through the eye and
> >> spreads throughout the organism.
> >> MindVox operates on a principle similar to RADAR, but
> >> is highly unstable and FLYING out of everything. It
> >> has an array of OC3's with direct interfaces to the
> >> ley-lines circling the earth. Its NOC's are located at
> >> Stonehenge, the Bermuda Triangle, and a
> >> distributed-system of Lost Temples hidden at the
> >> earth's core. The earth is hollow, conclusive and
> >> fully documented proof is available in the works of
> >> Nazi Scientist Genius: Hans Horbiger (who should not,
> >> and MUST not, be confused with the Scientist in Outer
> >> Space), who EXPOSED the whole entire truth (in its
> >> complete totality). THOSE PEOPLE, sadly, just didn't
> >> understand.
> >> Customer Support for MindVox is located in a little
> >> white house with a big UPS in the West Indies, a
> >> small, nondescript dwelling 10km. west of Lop Buri,
> >> Thailand, and a SERIES of completely trashed
> >> apartments on the upper east side in NYC.
> >> MindVox has been used for centuries in smaller doses
> >> to combat fatigue and boredom, and higher ranges, as
> >> part of spiritual initiation rituals in the Voxer
> >> Religion. MindVox HCl was first made available in 1991
> >> and will finally be released as an unbound freebase in
> >> 2001. In the very near future we hope to have Vox
> >> available in an exciting variety of flavored
> >> suppositories, in an assortment of sizes, so that you
> >> can stick it up your ass.
> >> MindVox UNDERSTANDS that Aleister Crowley was just
> >> misunderstood. The Book of Coming Forth by Night and
> >> Doing a Lot of Coke wasn't his fault. That was his
> >> DISEASE, plus, also, Aiwiss made him do BAD THINGS.
> >> Although, to be honest, Vox loves receiving Hate Mail
> >> and Death Threats from Satanic Masters of the Dark
> >> Arts who threaten to Smite it Down if it Doesn't STOP
> >> mocking (who's mocking?) the Great Beast (what did we
> >> ever say about Marilyn Manson? He's an EXCELLENT
> >> musician). Deep down inside, MindVox KNOWS that these
> >> letters ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY and WITHOUT A DOUBT do
> >> NOT come from welfare-collecting, computer-twerps who
> >> sit on the Internet 24hrs. a day. It Fully Realizes
> >> its Whole Entire Future is in Grave Peril and vibrates
> >> inside with Tremendous Glee...
> >> MindVox was INSIDE the Bayer corporation when they
> >> invented the cure for coughs. It hovered briefly in
> >> the general vicinity of Freud when he UNVEILED the
> >> Whole Entire panacea for depression, but then left,
> >> because he made its head hurt, lots and lots. Vox
> >> loves, believes in, and STANDS BEHIND all B-D
> >> products, which make hypodermic syringes that should
> >> ONLY be used for IM'ing insulin -- never, ever,
> >> anything else . . . at all. It chooses to disbelieve
> >> in the Secret, Hidden Network of Iranian Gas-Station
> >> Owners who are nearly always out of gas, change, or
> >> any food product that did not expire 3 years ago. They
> >> do, however, have a near-endless supply of baking soda
> >> and brillo, plus, also, not to be forgotten, Many
> >> Thousands of Mysterious Glass Tubes -- which the
> >> super-friendly worker will hand you through the
> >> bulletproof glass if he KNOWS you -- which could serve
> >> almost ANY purpose imaginable, but are definitely,
> >> without a doubt, and absolutely, NOT crackpipes.
> >> MindVox understands this is just another conspiracy by
> >> the Illuminati, CIA and Black Panthers.
> >> MindVox SEES the REAL you. Yes YOU, it KNOWS that
> >> you're so special, you're all aglow with specialness.
> >> It finds you interesting, different, and totally
> >> unique -- it loves you, lots and lots, and wants to
> >> eXchange bodily fluids. Vox is sensitive -- whole
> >> Legions of Mental Health Experts, have PROVEN and
> >> EXPLAINED this -- and lies awake at night crying,
> >> feeling the pain of the Horrible Atrocities being
> >> COMMITED at the former fully robotic NeXT factory,
> >> where BAD PEOPLE are making the Automation do
> >> TERRIBLE, Unspeakable, THINGS . . .
> >> The Truth is OUT There ... and if it's not; just go
> >> ahead and make things up. Because, really, in The End
> >> (Apocalypse Now Remix), everything is always all-good.
> >> You only need to open your ears to see the truth, and
> >> understand that Saint Cobain died for our sins, Tupac
> >> was killed because he cared TOO MUCH, and Jesus so
> >> loved LSD that he gave the world bisexual women in
> >> thigh-high leather boots.
> >> Complete Documented Proof is available from
> >> the Scientist in Outer Space, upon request.
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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