[ibogaine] request for patrick

shelley krupa skrupa20022002 at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 6 01:06:27 EDT 2004

DH ,I really like what you posted!I have done inoga three times myself,currently I have 9 weeks off opiates.No cravings,thank god,do feel the old thinking patterns starting to slip in ,miss the otherwold nearness provided in early post ibogaine time.I myself got burned out in 12 step too,havent gone in a really long time,do miss the commaradarie,dont miss the "club" stuff.Id love to find a place where we can be together in peace ,i would so like to share my experiences ,sure is hard to translate into words tho.I did post my experiences in another forum,but they all bicker about whose way is better & put down ibogaine,so needless to say,I was overjoyed to find yall.Today has put me off some,als hurts my heart to see all the pain & misunderstanding.Every time I have done ibogaine I have felt this deep longing to be able to work with people helping them detox this way,in fact I almost went to work for ibogaine association ,but they freaked out about what I make as a nurse,oh well.Dont
 mean to go on,feel such a longing to connect with my birds of a feather-shelley

D H <dave at phantom.com> wrote:On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 11:25 AM, leslie hughes wrote:
> i would like to talk to people who have already done
> ibogaine and are trying to stay sober which is where i
> am at, I have done it twice and am still very shaky
> but trying. No disrespect to anyone but I read 20 long
> letters from one person who seems very smart and
> knowledgeable and then a month later oh by the way,
> they've never done ibogaine and are still using. Ok I
> appreciate you being smart and may like reading what
> you say but somehow I don't have that much interest in
> taking advice from someone who isn't clean and hasn't
> done ibogaine and is handing out sobriety advice and
> explaining how to get the most from their ibo
> experience.
> I feel like I'm going crazy a lot of the time its very
> hard to maintain, I go to 12 step meetings but most of
> the time I only feel worse and want to get high and
> mindvox is the only site I've ever found which isn't
> so depressing and has a lot of hope but I don't want
> to talk to people who are still getting high.

once upon a time when I was going to meetings I used to think the same 

(Pre Ibogaine) I would go to meetings, "faking it" -meaning I didn't 
really get the spiritual part 100%. Frustrated because NA was the only 
game in town for folks like me.

I would often turn my thoughts to using, and dwell on that wavelength. 
(eventually I started using again).

I also completely shut out anyone who was "still using", I mean what 
could they possibly have to offer for me?

Then I did Ibogaine, got "clean", and my perspective changed, not 
overnight, but it changed. I kept going to meetings, mainly as it was 
my only source of support and understanding of what I was going thru, 
putting the pieces of my broken life back together after like 20 years 
of using. Most 12 steppers could not (or would not) relate to the 
Ibogaine experience (understandably so).

But now I see things a little differently. Like by only communicating 
with people "who are clean" (which in my book confines my communication 
to a VERY small portion of the population). And my experience is that 
the "people who are clean" were people I encountered at "meetings" and 
I soon discovered that these people were seriously limited in what they 
had to offer, mainly it was regurgitated "12 step talk" and a lot of 
these people were still engaging in some seriously fucked up behavior. 
I witnessed their "spiritual program" lasting only about 10 feet out 
the door of the meetings. I found this seriously hypocritical, 
especially given these people were handing out unsolicited "advice" to 
the "newcomers" and basically running the 12 ring circus.

It was also around this time that I had to take pain medication which i 
quickly learned was a taboo thing, and got no positive support from the 
"12 steppers".

I have since bailed on meetings, I found that I was at conflict with 
some of the 12 step Dogma, not to mention I live in a very isolated 
place and the people from "the rooms" began to shun me for taking 
medicine as prescribed, and being into the ibogaine thing. But I will 
say that NA did help me thru some rough times. I'm just past that scene 

What I hear from Leslie is that you are having a hard time, and need 
more of a forum of Post-Ibogaine experienced people dealing with life 
as it happens.

I can totally fucking relate.

I'm sure between now and sometime much later on Patrick will get around 
to enabling such a list-serve. Maybe he'll even grant God his 
@phantom.com address.

But don't discount the information being shared here. There are really 
good, kind hearted people here sharing their experience, whatever that 
may be. There are also some of us who are completely fucking insane, 
and that is not entirely a bad thing.

Reading what people are going thru, wether they are "still using", have 
been clean with ibo for years or going to get treated next week, 
certainly helps me.- if not other than the simple perspective of being 
where they are, knowing i was once there, and having some fucking 
gratitude that I'm not there again, which given my track record is 
nothing short of a miracle.

My question is... Leslie what IS working for you? How have YOU managed 
to stay clean?

I'll bet if you share more where you are at you may get the feedback 
you are looking for. (Or not)...


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