[ibogaine] hi all, bad/sad new today
HSLotsof at aol.com
HSLotsof at aol.com
Tue Aug 3 21:57:19 EDT 2004
In a message dated 8/3/04 7:23:20 PM, ptpeet at nyc.rr.com writes:
> I bumped into an old friend today who a while ago did ibogaine for
>his methadone addiction.
> He was just coming from getting straight when I almost literally ran
>into him, and he didn't look like he was very happy, nor did he sound very
>happy. Hell, he wasn't very happy.
> His description of the ibogaine session was not encouraging. He said
>it was the most frightening thing he'd ever gone through, with him seeing
>extremely violent imagery for hours and hours.
> One question that came to mind- is it possible that the setting might
>have an influence on what the ibogaine shows someone? I mean, I will not
>go into the details of what he described to me as that's just too much info
>to successfully keep everyone anonymous, but considering what he says he was
>shown/saw, and where he was doing it and whose place it was, it occured
>to me that was he was seeing could have been due to the vibes in the place
>where he wound up doing his dose. Not that the person hosting him was a
>bad person or evil or anything like that, but he could have been an influence
>for many reasons I can't really go into. But my question remains- could
>setting influence the trip, like with any other kind of trip? I mean, set
>and setting are extremely important when one is doing heavy tripping,
>particularly if doing it for more than simply party reasons, so is it the
>same with ibogaine?
> He said it did definitely work for his withdrawals issue, and that
>he doesn't have to go back to his methadone program, but he was not happy
>with his experience, (as a matter of fact he kept apologizing to me, with me
>insisting that wasn't necessary at all but he wanted to badly to be able
>to tell me something positive and couldn't) saying he insisted that he had
>to end it early, before the sitters/providers wanted him to. He said he was
>being given a lot of doses, starting with one to begin with, then hours
>later the doses began increasing steadily, but I do not know why, other
>than he said they'd said something about him seemingly metabilizing it very
>fast or something.
> I'm a bit worried about and for him. So is V, who was with me when
>I saw him. She has heard that some people do get very depressed after doing
>ibogaine, and this guy is pretty much alone as far as I know and I don't
>have any way to get in touch with him really.
> On a related note- I did not get that commercial I mentioned last week
>(even though I did get the call back, damnit) and despite my initially
>saying I didn't want it because I wanted to do ibogaine I got really excited
>about it after the call back thinking I might have gotten it and all the
>good that could have come from it. I am now suspecting that, mumbo-jumbo
>as I'm sure it will sound, the ibogaine spirits didn't want me doing ibogaine
>when I had first planned. Turned out that I had some very last minute
>editing work to do Sunday and Monday on the book cover for Under the
>Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, a book I've edited and will
>be coming out this October and which was sent off to the printers today. Had
>I done ibogaine as planned, I wouldn't have been capable of doing the
>necessary work on my book- and it was only because I had been put in a
>situation where it looked like I might be landing that commercial that
>I was in a condition where I was able to work on more important book work
>when it became necessary, and I'll still be able to do the ibogaine another
> Anyway, so this guy wasn't happy. I'm not actually that worried about
>my own session, as my own set and setting will be much better tuned to me
>I think, considering what I know about his situation and comparing it to
>But still, I am a little scared and nervous still, and wasn't happy at
>all to hear about his not-so-pleasent experience.
> Please everyone, just think good thoughts for this unnamed person,
>as he can use them very much I think, and I care very much about him and want
>things to work out for him.
> Feedback appreciated please.
You provide a rich environment for discussion. To the best of my
understanding no one has yet been able to determine the outcome of any given ibogaine
therapy. Probably outside of St Kitts and I am not even sure extensive
psychiatric testing is done there or there any longer so we are left with no real
understanding of the psychiatric health of any given drug user going into ibogaine
therapy. Considering that I believe current research indicates 60+% of drug
users to have concurrent psychiatric conditions I am not sure where this takes
us or not. Was your friend depressed or unhappy before ibogaine and there is
a difference between being depressed and being unhappy?
As to set and setting the answer is certainly set and setting have some
effect but, I believe they have less effect with ibogaine than with lsd-like drugs.
Ibogaine is a pretty much self contained experience though I have no doubt
someone can manage to fuck it up. As for setting while I would prefer a quite
room in the country or by the sea and a good team of caretakers I am uncertain
if taking it in a junkies apartment would cause significant distinct
outcomes. For instance, experiencing ibogaine in a heavy drug environment may move
the subject to become more aware of just how foreboding such an environment is
and that much more motivated to change or leave the environment.
Ibogaine cannot give to you more than you bring to it. Everything ibogaine
teaches you or you learn from the ibogaine experience, you already know. You
are just not necessarily immediately aware of it.
Anything you think will increase your odds of a good ibogaine experience,
certainly do. Whether it is lighting a candle or other good things Dave mentions
or getting work out of the way as you did with your book, do it. Maybe the
iboga spirits moved you to finish your book so you could have that
accomplishment to enrich your experience and maybe not. You are a writer, a photographer,
an artist. That is saying a lot.
My advice to anyone going into the ibogaine experience is to have no
expectations, it is really interesting, it does end and enjoy yourself. And don't
judge the experience until after you have had the opportunity to sleep and rest.
The one thing I am not going to do specifically is tell you to take ibogaine.
That is up to you though I do think everyone unless medically excluded will
benefit by the experience in one way or another and I am not just talking
about drug users.
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