[ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?
RickV at hnncsb.org
Tue Jun 3 08:01:45 EDT 2003
This is sad, but true. Most counselors that I know are decent,
well-meaning people. As you know, however, working with opiate addicted
folks isn't all that easy. As such, there is often a rather predictable
life-cycle for (perhaps) the majority of such counselors.
1. Decent, well-meaning folks get burnt out, angry, hostile and quit.
2. Decent, well-meaning folks get burnt out, angry, hostile, then
become hard and control-oriented...often excelling as rigid
"bean-counter" sorts, and rising to a position of greater control, thus
creating even larger and more miserable systems of control.
3. Decent, well-meaning folks get burnt out, angry, hostile, and
remain...but learn over time to separate their feelings from their work,
and not to personalize all the lies, nonsense, deceit, etc., and simply
find enjoyment in working with the individuals they are there to serve.
This is the great minority.
As with all systems of control (cops and robbers; boss and worker
drones; etc.), it isn't person #3 that typically rises to a position of
authority. Because they have learned to rid themselves of the more
harmful, rigid concepts of control, they have a better understanding of
how to more effectively work with addicted persons. Folks in position
#2, because they think they know how it should all work (despite never
taking a hard look at how effective their draconian measures are), come
to view those who are compassionate (and thus challenge the outmoded
constructs of control) as "taking their side;" they view the world as
one of dichotomous conflict...just as they have been "programmed" to do.
Thus, systems of control, and rigid individuals who function well
within such constructs, tend to increase in power and size, creating
misery for all.
That's my perspective on the inside, anyway. But hey, I'm just a grunt
whose fate draweth nigh.
If I were opiate addicted, I'd find a real good aftercare sort of
assistance and do ibogaine as much as I had to in order to get myself
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666
Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
>>> aa.senepart at xtra.co.nz 06/03/03 07:21AM >>>
Nothing wrong with profit if there are good reasons or intentions
As far as I can see most govts don't want the hassle of recognizing
ibogaine. It costs them votes cost addicts are a minority group and
understanding of supplying Methadone is that is cheap shit that costs
as little as possible and apparently keeps crime down cos it keeps
happy and out of trouble. They are seen to go through all the motions
therapy etc. while not spending too much money or time and think they
shove the whole problem under the carpet sort of thing.
Mostly its all crap. The originial idea of the Methadone programe was
drop dosage and get people off which hardly ever happens to my
Most people I know end up increasing not dropping. Most of the so
people who are supposed to provide help don't even know what they are
talking about and are very uninformed about their job in general but
get paid for repeating text book phrases. I probably sound cynical but
give my a guts ache. Thats why I won't go through all the crap to go
programme. I'd rather stay at home and deal with myself than those
It would be great to see some progress on ibogaine or even open minds
other treatments but it seems like banging your head against a brick
times. I know there are people who are passionate out there but the
majority are just muddling along in some passive state worrying about
in their own back yard.
PS Sorry for ranting. Must be in one of those moods. Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sara" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?
> What is wrong with making profit ? even the water company makes
> People who do research for the farmacutical industry make a fortune
> why would they change to a non profit research ?
> I don't know Dr. Mash in person but I don't think that she makes
> profits,she could make more money doing something else.
> Ibogaine will not go anywhere ,just because the farmacutical
> Doesn't want it to,It is all about personal interest, that's the
> Of our materialistic selfish time we live in.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marcus75 at ziplip.com [mailto:marcus75 at ziplip.com]
> Sent: dinsdag 3 juni 2003 3:32
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: [ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?
> I write this message with respect to everyone and hope to receive
> same. This means you Patrick, it is not necessary to go off on me, I
> not blindly attacking anyone or making unfounded accusations. I am
> writing only on facts as they have been shown over course of years
> I would think that somewhere between Marc's attitude of ibogaine
> very safe and Mash's hysteria of ibogaine will kill everybody unless
> is the one giving it to you, is the middle of some level of what is
> What I'd like to know is what the real facts are about ibogaine's
> or danger. I think that with the present situation none of these
> ever be known by anyone because the only researcher with human data
> giving ibogaine to drug addicts is Mash. Mash is biased, has vested
> personal interest in ibogaine and second generation ibogaine drugs
> (nor-ibogaine) and Mash lies.
> If she doesn't lie then she changes her mind a lot as with the
> constantly closing but never really closed Healing Visions.
> Ibogaine is never going anywhere in the united states if it depends
> Mash for anything. If she ever submits data to anyone, it's not going
> be anything that says ibogaine is safe. There is never even a need
> interview Mash, everyone already knows what she will say which is
> ibogaine is extremely dangerous and kills everyone unless she sells
> to you.
> I think ibogaine in united states is dead, Mash has helped turn it
> same thing as lsd. I don't know how agencies accept data or what
> need for it to qualify but I'm not sure anyone would even accept
> from person who is biased and has so much personal interest in that
> outcome. That's not science it is unfair business practice. I am sure
> data will ever show that ibogaine is safe while all data show that
> nor-ibogaine is very safe.
> There is a real need for an unbiased group of scientists without
> personal profit potential who really are investigating what ibogaine
> does and what the science is, to have access to patients undergoing
> ibogaine treatment. So far there are only ego maniacs with interest
> themselves not in science.
> A open question to the list is what can be done to bring scientists
> want to do research instead of make a profit or increase their
> share for a over priced detox, in contact with patients undergoing
> ibogaine treatment in Mexico, Canada or elsewhere in the world.
> I see ibogaine treatment moving forward but legal access and
> research isn't going anywhere. It hasn't moved in years, with any of
> depending on Mash it will never move.
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