[ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?

Allison Senepart aa.senepart at xtra.co.nz
Tue Jun 3 07:21:12 EDT 2003

Nothing wrong with profit if there are good reasons or intentions behind it.
As far as I can see most govts don't want the hassle of recognizing
ibogaine.  It costs them votes cost addicts are a minority group and my
understanding of supplying Methadone is that is cheap shit that costs them
as little as possible and apparently keeps crime down cos it keeps addicts
happy and out of trouble.  They are seen to go through all the motions of
therapy etc. while not spending too much money or time and think they can
shove the whole problem under the carpet sort of thing.
Mostly its all crap.  The originial idea of the Methadone programe was to
drop dosage and get people off which hardly ever happens to my knowledge.
Most people I know end up increasing not dropping.  Most of the so called
people who are supposed to provide help don't even know what they are
talking about and are very uninformed about their job in general but still
get paid for repeating text book phrases.  I probably sound cynical but they
give my a guts ache.  Thats why I won't go through all the crap to go on the
programme. I'd rather stay at home and deal with myself than those wankers.
It would be great to see some progress on ibogaine or even open minds to
other treatments but it seems like banging your head against a brick wall at
times.  I know there are people who are passionate out there but the
majority are just muddling along in some passive state worrying about whats
in their own back yard.
PS  Sorry for ranting.  Must be in one of those moods.  Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sara" <sara119 at xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?

> What is wrong with making profit ? even the water company makes profit .
> People who do research for the farmacutical industry make a fortune ,
> why would they change to a non profit research ?
> I don't know Dr. Mash in person but I don't think that she makes huge
> profits,she could make more money doing something else.
> Ibogaine will not go anywhere ,just because the farmacutical industry
> Doesn't want it to,It is all about personal interest, that's the drive
> Of our materialistic selfish time we live in.
> S
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marcus75 at ziplip.com [mailto:marcus75 at ziplip.com]
> Sent: dinsdag 3 juni 2003 3:32
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: [ibogaine] unbiased ibogaine research? how?
> I write this message with respect to everyone and hope to receive the
> same.  This means you Patrick, it is not necessary to go off on me, I am
> not blindly attacking anyone or making unfounded accusations. I am
> writing only on facts as they have been shown over course of years of
> time.
> I would think that somewhere between Marc's attitude of ibogaine being
> very safe and Mash's hysteria of ibogaine will kill everybody unless she
> is the one giving it to you, is the middle of some level of what is
> real..
> What I'd like to know is what the real facts are about ibogaine's safety
> or danger. I think that with the present situation none of these will
> ever be known by anyone because the only researcher with human data on
> giving ibogaine to drug addicts is Mash. Mash is biased, has vested
> personal interest in ibogaine and second generation ibogaine drugs
> (nor-ibogaine) and Mash lies.
> If she doesn't lie then she changes her mind a lot as with the
> constantly closing but never really closed Healing Visions.
> Ibogaine is never going anywhere in the united states if it depends on
> Mash for anything. If she ever submits data to anyone, it's not going to
> be anything that says ibogaine is safe. There is never even a need to
> interview Mash, everyone already knows what she will say which is
> ibogaine is extremely dangerous and kills everyone unless she sells it
> to you.
> I think ibogaine in united states is dead, Mash has helped turn it into
> same thing as lsd. I don't know how agencies accept data or what they
> need for it to qualify but I'm not sure anyone would even accept data
> from person who is biased and has so much personal interest in that
> outcome. That's not science it is unfair business practice. I am sure no
> data will ever show that ibogaine is safe while all data show that
> nor-ibogaine is very safe.
> There is a real need for an unbiased group of scientists without
> personal profit potential who really are investigating what ibogaine
> does and what the science is, to have access to patients undergoing
> ibogaine treatment. So far there are only ego maniacs with interest in
> themselves not in science.
> A open question to the list is what can be done to bring scientists who
> want to do research instead of make a profit or increase their market
> share for a over priced detox, in contact with patients undergoing
> ibogaine treatment in Mexico, Canada or elsewhere in the world.
> I see ibogaine treatment moving forward but legal access and scientific
> research isn't going anywhere. It hasn't moved in years, with any of it
> depending on Mash it will never move.

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