[ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads

Bernard C Phifer chimp at zwallet.com
Wed Jan 15 12:13:31 EST 2003

 I know exactly what you mean. I go to meetings sometimes and i fucked up and told them i was on methadone. I was shunned,looked down upon and told i was still using. NA here in North Carolina was started by a bunch of people who were on methadone. Now it seems like most of the people there never even used dope (heroin). It mostly consists of crack heads and pot smoking teenagers. It is very clicky and there is a big conform vibe. If you don't dress like us listen to our music and get your tounge pierced we wont accept you into the circle. I just don't get anything out of it 


>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:44:45 -0800
>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>From: crownofthorns at hushmail.com
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Turning Curious Teens Into Crackheads
>That's the big problem with all this bro, you hit it exactly. I am against the whole treatment pimp concept of drug treatment which I find very personally offensive and disgusting. But as I said I do go to groups once in a while. What is so hard about th>at is that my experience with that is exactly what you just said. I am either of the cult or I am not. I have found it impossible to go to any meeting once in a while and then come back there without even ever being a big member or anything, without havi>ng all these people try to save me when I am not trying to be saved, I'm doing good I maybe wanted to go unload a little somewhere but I find I have to go to a different meeting every time. 
>It's not so bad right now and not something I think about very much because I've been in a good space for at least 6 months now, but when I was struggling it was always the exact thing you described. If I make a choice to do something other than the twel>ve steps it is not like anyone wishes me well or even accepts it, I am right away on some enemy of the cult list and have people saying I'm doing all these things because I left their group. 
>It is impossible to take what you find useful and leave the rest. Maybe this is not how it's meant to be but none of the 12 step groups I have ever been to where about people helping each other and accepting different answers. You are either in or you're> on the enemy list. It's their way or you are lost. And that is a cult, not a self help group.
>Peace out,
>On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:01:21 -0800 Gamma <gammalyte9000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>--- Dana Beal <dana at cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
>>>US: Breaking Out Of The 12-Step Lockstep
>>>But today, the recovery movement -- with its emphasis on 
>>> childhood victimization, lifetime attendance at
>>>12-step groups and complete abstinence from all psychoactive 
>>> substances -- hasfallen from pop culture
>>>favor.  "There was a time when it was almost the 'in thing' to 
>>> say you were in recovery," says William
>>>White, author of "Slaying the Dragon," a history of addiction 
>>> treatment.  Thankfully, that is no longer the
>>True as it is that 12 steps helped me through some really tough 
>>times, I am
>>dis-associating myself from the 12 step scene, for many of the same 
>>reasons put
>>forth in this essay by Maia that Dana Posted. Most people assume/believe 
>>Bill Wilson devised the 12 steps with Dr Bob but when in fact these 
>>that so may 12 steppers hold so dear came directly from The Oxford 
>>Group, a
>>religious, evangelical study group. to say NA is not religious is 
>>off-base when you take into account the number of times God is mentioned 
>>just the 12 steps (11 out of 12).
>>but what turns our stomachs more and more is the self-rightous zeal 
>>that many
>>long-time 12 step members have towards those of us who question 
>>the "law", or
>>have our own ideas about how recovery really works. We live in a 
>>small, rural
>>setting and have experienced similar accusations as seen in the 
>>the movie "The
>>Crucible". Gosip becomes truth, and us evil-doers are cast out and 
>>shunned by
>>the "true believers".
>>There are some great books out there about recovery, and statistically 
>>you have
>>a better chance of staying off dope by associating with people who 
>>never had a
>>problem to begin with than to constantly go to meetings, continually
>>identifying yourself as an addict and tying yourself to the past. 
>>Ozzy Osbourne
>>put it quite eloquently: "If I lost a leg, do I really want to spend 
>>the rest
>>of my life sitting in a room with a bunch of one legged people?"(or 
>>to that effect)
>>end rant.
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