[ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle

Brett Calabrese bcalabrese at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 1 21:01:17 EST 2003


--- MARC <marc420emery at shaw.ca> wrote:
> I have gotten suggestions that MDMA could be helpful
> after ibogaine, or DMT.

There was a report of MDMA hitting particularly hard
after ibogaine and 1 "ibogaine death" involved
possible use of MDMA and Ibogaine - not a good idea on
top of a bad ticker... Just FYI and likely due to
ibogaines effect on serotonin - well and XTC's... too.

Brett

> 
> I have dosed more than 1,000 people in pure MDMA in
> my recent eight years,
> and I have dosed over 200 people on DMT in the last
> 5 years (more than
> anyone else I know), but I haven't considered it an
> adjunct to the iboga
> therapy yet.
> 
> I'm still exploring the vast potential and varieties
> of uses for the
> ibogaine, so it will be a while before I consider
> powerful psychedelics as
> part of therapy, if ever.
> 
> Marc Emery
> Iboga Therapy House
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Xiang Lee Chen" <xiangleechen at yahoo.com>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
> 
> 
> > Thank you, my questions then would be if you don't
> > believe in the 12 steps then why did dr. mash say
> that
> > you take people to meetings sometime? My other
> > question would be then do you feel lsd therapy and
> > psychedelics are useful for helping people get
> > abstinence from hard drugs?
> >
> > My question for Marc Emery of Iboga Therapy House
> is
> > do you plan to have any kind of spiritual use of
> > psychedelic drugs after the ibogaine?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Xiang Chen
> > http://www.dom.washington.edu/sparx/
> >
> > --- "Patrick K. Kroupa" <digital at phantom.com>
> wrote:
> > > On [Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 05:52:01PM -0800],
> [Xiang
> > > Lee Chen] wrote:
> > >
> > > | what I have read on mindvox answers some
> questions
> > > in
> > > | parts but it's not a sensibile whole. You are
> very
> > > | very smart and write extremely well but it is
> like
> > > you
> > > | take pages and re arrange them in no right
> order.
> > > I
> > > | cannot follow, I think this is intentional but
> I
> > > don't
> > > | understand mindvox at all except art, not
> > > followable
> > > | information
> > >
> > > I'm just incoherent.
> > >
> > > | My questions please.
> > > |
> > > | At Seattle when asked about the 12 steps you
> gave
> > > a
> > > | nice reply and said that upward of 50% of
> addicted
> > > | persons who take ibogaine used the 12 steps.
> In
> > > this
> > > | issue of heroin times you are very negative
> about
> > > 12
> > > | steps. I know you do not use them but you gave
> > > very
> > > | nice reply at talk, then wrote a article which
> > > | completely invalidates them. I don't
> understand.
> > >
> > > What's in "this issue" of Heroin Times, is
> sumthin'
> > > I wrote 'bout 2 years
> > > ago; he is simply recycling my material.  A lot
> of
> > > that particular space
> > > in time, is just me working out my shit and
> venting,
> > > to sum it up, "HA!
> > > Fuck all of you stupid fucking pieces of shit
> who
> > > ripped me off, handed me
> > > lead weights while I was drowning and attempted
> to
> > > inflict psychological
> > > damages on me while I was in an extremely
> vulnerable
> > > state.  Who's still
> > > standing is me, and who has gone down in fucking
> > > flames are 95% of the
> > > weak-willed idiots who ever got in my face with
> > > their bullshit."
> > >
> > > In short, it's an emotional response that
> represents
> > > my feelings about
> > > being subjected to "drug treatment" and the
> comedy
> > > routine known as rehab.
> > > But that was a while ago, and it's kinda like,
> okay,
> > > the sun rose in the
> > > east today, and the 12 steps still suck, so what
> > > else is new.
> > >
> > > The 12 steps are sumthin' to do -- other than
> drugs.
> > >  They're extremely
> > > old eastern concepts for dismantling ego,
> rewritten
> > > and dumbed-down for
> > > drug dependent individuals who are acclimated to
> > > western culture.
> > > Somewhere along the way, all of that turned into
> the
> > > Cult of Eternal
> > > Powerlessness where you can sit and spin,
> complain
> > > about shit for all
> > > eternity, and shine up the altar you've built to
> > > your idealized former
> > > self.
> > >
> > > An organized alternative to the 12-steps, which
> many
> > > people on this list
> > > seem to find useful is SMART.  I've never done
> it
> > > personally, but reading
> > > through their spin control, I haven't found much
> I
> > > disagree with.
> > >
> > > Uhm, I dunno their URL offhand, Randy does I'm
> sure.
> > >
> > >
> > > | In JAMA article you are quoted as saying that
> on
> > > | ibogaine you "went to hell and got killed 1000
> > > times"
> > > | which is same as you said at talk when you did
> > > | ibogaines to detox from drugs, but at your
> talk
> > > you
> > > | gave very dark experiences but it was very
> funny
> > > not
> > > | like you would not do ibogaine again, you said
> you
> > > | will do ibogaine again at talk. You also said
> > > ibogaine
> > > | very mild, not near as strong as LSD.
> > >
> > > Yeah I did, it wasn't much fun, but it certainly
> > > didn't deter me from
> > > doing ibogaine again.  Ibogaine isn't a very
> strong
> > > "hallucinogen" it's
> > > equivalent to no more than roughly 300-500mcg of
> > > LSD.  If the visions are
> > > distressing, then just open your eyes, they will
> > > recede.
> > >
> > > This is both good and bad.  What it amounts to
> is
> > > walking into the lobby
> > > where a movie is playing, you can go sit in the
> > > movie, or if you don't
> > > like it, you can wander back out and land right
> on,
> > > "fuck this, it didn't
> > > work, I knew it wouldn't, nothing ever does,
> where's
> > > my dealer at..."
> > > Ibogaine isn't strong enough to FORCE you to
> > > confront anything, you can
> > > avoid it.  On 3-5mg+ of LSD you really, REALLY
> do
> > > not have that option.
> > > Whether you decide you want it or not at that
> point,
> > > you're going.
> > >
> > > On the flipside, LSD ain't gonna do nothin'
> 'bout
> > > your habit.
> > >
> > > | Thanks for talk and your time, for me you made
> it
> > > much
> > > | eaisier to understand difference between ultra
> > > rapid
> > > | and other detox and what ibogaine feel like,
> but
> > > you
> > > | confuse me with 12 step and if you like
> ibogaine
> > > or
> > > | not.
> > >
> > > I like ibogaine, the 12-steps are something that
> > > works out for some
> > > people, and does damage to many more who are
> > > subjected to this bullshit as
> > > the "only answer," to drug dependence, and
> confuse
> > > their failure to get in
> > > tune with this cult, as having anything
> whatsoever
> > > to do with stepping out
> > > of drug dependence.
> > >
> > > What that means: if you actually WANT to get off
> > > drugs, and the 12-steps
> > > don't work out for you, it does not mean you're
> > > damned, not ready, or
> > > hopeless; it just means maybe you should find
> > > something else to do.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> 
> 
> 


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