[ibogaine] Further to Patrick's comments
carlambarnes at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 25 23:25:48 EST 2003
Patrick, please stick with poetic patrick whenever
possible. Save the politician when running for office
or defending Mash. Fuck is not a problem, anger
management issues are ok as long as the guy is cute,
you qualify. As long as you don't hit women, never
Marc I understand your being a great guy and helpful
but I'm a little weirded out. I too cant imagine doing
ibogaine without some music. I like alternative and
some ambient, I don't like total silence. I know youre
trying to do something good but it almost sounds like
punishment or something, you stick people into a dark
room with nothing to hear or smell and dont talk to
them??????? why on earth would you do that? I dont
know if patrick was being sarcastic or not but I love
what flowers and different perfume smells like when
I'm on ibogaine.
Why do you do that? I dont think one person who has
done ibogaine agrees with it. And if its like doing a
movie then I missed the movie, that's what people like
to write about it but if its going to the movies I
sure missed the movie part of it.
I don't ever attack anyone and I'm not starting now
well no I did get upset about the paying blacks not to
have children messages a long time ago here, but why
on earth do you dose people like that Marc?
--- crownofthorns at hushmail.com wrote:
> FWIW I can't even imagine doing iboga without music
> bro. I have got to go strongly with that one. Dimly
> lit room. No mexican or thai food before either ;-)
> Other then that Marc please do not start Patrick up,
> it's like setting off the Karl Rove of the
> counterculture. I much much much prefer the real
> Patrick that says fuck and doesn't put out this wall
> of words like he, you and all of your staff always
> like to do.
> Why doesn't everyone donate .10 cents to get
> Patrick, Marc and all his staff members in the same
> room, to figure out what side everyone is on and
> then go run for office or start a PR agency. Don't
> see how any of you could lose. It's like talking to
> teflon. I truly do understand why none of you are in
> No dis to any of you, but please stop before it
> starts. That is my worst nightmare, all of you
> talking all at once. It's like CNN covering a
> political conference in the professional weirdo
> zone. Marko going off, Sara going off, Brett going
> off, I can take in stride. PM & Co. is like the
> verbal apocalypse.
> Peace out and stick with fuck! ;-)
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:35:34 -0800 "Patrick K.
> Kroupa" <digital at phantom.com> wrote:
> >On [Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 02:06:45PM -0800], [A J
> Dietterle] wrote:
> >Hey Marc,
> >Just to open this, I wasn't attacking you, and
> didn't touch on any
> >of the
> >other points you made, since I guess it could be
> construed as discussing
> >information that doesn't really belong to me. I'm
> not really sure
> >various individuals on the list -- nearly all of
> whom I know, and
> >think to
> >be pretty cool people -- have all chosen to start
> arguing with one
> >at this precise moment in time. But I'm just gonna
> assume it's
> >the phase
> >of the moon, or the alignment of the planets, and
> it is the time
> >of the
> >season to vent and unload.
> >LSD and ibogaine are both entheogens, and offer
> their own pathways
> >experience, and the possibility of gaining
> sufficient insight to
> >step out
> >of drug dependence. Of course LSD will not get you
> unsprung. Point
> >though, it's wasn't particularly relevant, and
> throwing it in at
> >tail-end of my message may have confused things.
> >As far as the music, scents, and interaction with
> patients goes.
> > I can't
> >say what exactly happened with roughly 250 people
> in general; but
> >out of
> >the 50 or so whom I know personally from that
> number... The experience
> >has been exactly as I described.
> >To summarize: they have displayed an extremely wide
> spectrum of
> >to light, darkness, sounds, types of music, scents,
> and interaction
> >other individuals while under the influence of
> >Some people like new age music, others love
> classical, Pink Floyd
> >highly popular -- what're the odds!?!?!? -- in
> short, people display
> >individual preferences. Allowing them this freedom
> appears to have
> >effect on the efficacy of their experience.
> Except, perhaps, to
> >make them
> >feel more comfortable.
> >If you find that 100% of your patients respond well
> to dark rooms,
> > no
> >sounds, no scents, and zero interaction with
> others. Perhaps this
> >because you are dosing them all under these exact
> conditions and
> >giving them other options.
> >The reason I commented was because I know many
> people who have done
> >ibogaine, and only a very small subset from that
> whole, preferred
> >conditions you describe.
> >My post WAS all about me, it was a description of
> my personal responses
> >various stimuli while under the influence of
> ibogaine. I have a
> >disparate collection of backgrounds, and perhaps
> the words "fuck"
> >"shit" find themselves present in my speech
> patterns -- or writing
> >-- with
> >greater than average frequency. And on the
> flipside, anger management
> >issues are certainly one of my problems. Oh well.
> C'est la Vie.
> >If you took it to mean I was angry, angry AT YOU,
> or just angry
> >general; nope. I'm having a pretty cool day, and I
> just saw something
> >scroll by that I strongly disagreed with; so I
> >What I'm curious 'bout is: what do you do if
> someone is having a
> >bad trip and freaking out? In my personal
> experience, the answer
> >to this
> >question is EXACTLY THE SAME for ibogaine and all
> other entheogens
> >-- or
> >even tweaking out on crack for that matter: you
> INTERACT with them,
> >reassure them, BELIEVE what you're saying, and
> radiate that. They
> >get pulled into your space, and out of whatever
> negative headtrip
> >in. Well, with crack this doesn't really work out
> some of the time
> >The words don't really matter, it's just the vibe,
> delivery, and
> >tone and level of what you are emitting.
> >Thusly, to wrap up; hey, I STRONGLY disagree about
> those particular
> >aspects of whatcha mentioned -- so I commented.
> This doesn't change
> >fact that I think what you're doing is highly cool.
> >I guess what it comes down to is; yeah, if you kill
> all external
> >then you are certainly going to amplify the
> TrIpPing oU+ part of
> >experience -- whoopsie, we don't say tripping out,
> I meant to say
> >oneiric state replete with waking visions. Kinda
> like doing any
> >in an isolation tank is gonna amplify the level of
> >But... A lotta people don't necessarily like,
> want, or need that.
> > Maybe
> >they just wanna smell a flower, get a hug, and
> listen to Pink Floyd.
> >Different things work in different ways for
> different people differently.
> >That's my experience anywaze,
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