[ibogaine] Further to Patrick's comments

Carla Barnes carlambarnes at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 25 23:25:48 EST 2003


Patrick, please stick with poetic patrick whenever
possible. Save the politician when running for office
or defending Mash. Fuck is not a problem, anger
management issues are ok as long as the guy is cute,
you qualify. As long as you don't hit women, never
change.

Marc I understand your being a great guy and helpful
but I'm a little weirded out. I too cant imagine doing
ibogaine without some music. I like alternative and
some ambient, I don't like total silence. I know youre
trying to do something good but it almost sounds like
punishment or something, you stick people into a dark
room with nothing to hear or smell and dont talk to
them??????? why on earth would you do that? I dont
know if patrick was being sarcastic or not but I love
what flowers and different perfume smells like when
I'm on ibogaine. 

Why do you do that? I dont think one person who has
done ibogaine agrees with it. And if its like doing a
movie then I missed the movie, that's what people like
to write about it but if its going to the movies I
sure missed the movie part of it.

I don't ever attack anyone and I'm not starting now
well no I did get upset about the paying blacks not to
have children messages a long time ago here, but why
on earth do you dose people like that Marc?

Carla B

--- crownofthorns at hushmail.com wrote:
> 
> FWIW I can't even imagine doing iboga without music
> bro. I have got to go strongly with that one. Dimly
> lit room. No mexican or thai food before either ;-)
> 
> Other then that Marc please do not start Patrick up,
> it's like setting off the Karl Rove of the
> counterculture. I much much much prefer the real
> Patrick that says fuck and doesn't put out this wall
> of words like he, you and all of your staff always
> like to do. 
> 
> Why doesn't everyone donate .10 cents to get
> Patrick, Marc and all his staff members in the same
> room, to figure out what side everyone is on and
> then go run for office or start a PR agency. Don't
> see how any of you could lose. It's like talking to
> teflon. I truly do understand why none of you are in
> prison.
> 
> No dis to any of you, but please stop before it
> starts. That is my worst nightmare, all of you
> talking all at once. It's like CNN covering a
> political conference in the professional weirdo
> zone. Marko going off, Sara going off, Brett going
> off, I can take in stride. PM & Co. is like the
> verbal apocalypse. 
> 
> Peace out and stick with fuck! ;-)
> Curtis
> 
> 
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:35:34 -0800 "Patrick K.
> Kroupa" <digital at phantom.com> wrote:
> >On [Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 02:06:45PM -0800], [A J
> Dietterle] wrote:
> >
> >Hey Marc,
> >
> >Just to open this, I wasn't attacking you, and
> didn't touch on any 
> >of the
> >other points you made, since I guess it could be
> construed as discussing
> >information that doesn't really belong to me.  I'm
> not really sure 
> >why
> >various individuals on the list -- nearly all of
> whom I know, and 
> >think to
> >be pretty cool people -- have all chosen to start
> arguing with one 
> >another
> >at this precise moment in time.  But I'm just gonna
> assume it's 
> >the phase
> >of the moon, or the alignment of the planets, and
> it is the time 
> >of the
> >season to vent and unload. 
> >
> >LSD and ibogaine are both entheogens, and offer
> their own pathways 
> >to
> >experience, and the possibility of gaining
> sufficient insight to 
> >step out
> >of drug dependence.  Of course LSD will not get you
> unsprung.  Point 
> >taken
> >though, it's wasn't particularly relevant, and
> throwing it in at 
> >the
> >tail-end of my message may have confused things.
> >
> >As far as the music, scents, and interaction with
> patients goes. 
> > I can't
> >say what exactly happened with roughly 250 people
> in general; but 
> >out of
> >the 50 or so whom I know personally from that
> number...  The experience
> >has been exactly as I described.  
> >
> >To summarize: they have displayed an extremely wide
> spectrum of 
> >responses
> >to light, darkness, sounds, types of music, scents,
> and interaction 
> >with
> >other individuals while under the influence of
> ibogaine.
> >
> >Some people like new age music, others love
> classical, Pink Floyd 
> >is
> >highly popular -- what're the odds!?!?!? -- in
> short, people display
> >individual preferences.  Allowing them this freedom
> appears to have 
> >no
> >effect on the efficacy of their experience. 
> Except, perhaps, to 
> >make them
> >feel more comfortable.
> >
> >If you find that 100% of your patients respond well
> to dark rooms,
> > no
> >sounds, no scents, and zero interaction with
> others.  Perhaps this 
> >is
> >because you are dosing them all under these exact
> conditions and 
> >not
> >giving them other options.
> >
> >The reason I commented was because I know many
> people who have done
> >ibogaine, and only a very small subset from that
> whole, preferred 
> >the
> >conditions you describe.
> >
> >My post WAS all about me, it was a description of
> my personal responses 
> >to
> >various stimuli while under the influence of
> ibogaine.  I have a 
> >pretty
> >disparate collection of backgrounds, and perhaps
> the words "fuck" 
> >and
> >"shit" find themselves present in my speech
> patterns -- or writing 
> >-- with
> >greater than average frequency.  And on the
> flipside, anger management
> >issues are certainly one of my problems.  Oh well. 
> C'est la Vie.
> >
> >If you took it to mean I was angry, angry AT YOU,
> or just angry 
> >in
> >general; nope.  I'm having a pretty cool day, and I
> just saw something
> >scroll by that I strongly disagreed with; so I
> commented.
> >
> >What I'm curious 'bout is: what do you do if
> someone is having a 
> >really
> >bad trip and freaking out?  In my personal
> experience, the answer 
> >to this
> >question is EXACTLY THE SAME for ibogaine and all
> other entheogens 
> >-- or
> >even tweaking out on crack for that matter: you
> INTERACT with them,
> >
> >reassure them, BELIEVE what you're saying, and
> radiate that.  They 
> >will
> >get pulled into your space, and out of whatever
> negative headtrip 
> >they're
> >in.  Well, with crack this doesn't really work out
> some of the time 
> >=)
> >
> >The words don't really matter, it's just the vibe,
> delivery, and 
> >overall
> >tone and level of what you are emitting.  
> >
> >Thusly, to wrap up; hey, I STRONGLY disagree about
> those particular
> >aspects of whatcha mentioned -- so I commented. 
> This doesn't change 
> >the
> >fact that I think what you're doing is highly cool.
> >
> >I guess what it comes down to is; yeah, if you kill
> all external 
> >stimulus,
> >then you are certainly going to amplify the
> TrIpPing oU+ part of 
> >the
> >experience -- whoopsie, we don't say tripping out,
> I meant to say 
> >an
> >oneiric state replete with waking visions.  Kinda
> like doing any 
> >entheogen
> >in an isolation tank is gonna amplify the level of
> experience.
> >
> >But...  A lotta people don't necessarily like,
> want, or need that. 
> >  Maybe
> >they just wanna smell a flower, get a hug, and
> listen to Pink Floyd.
> >Different things work in different ways for
> different people differently.
> >
> >That's my experience anywaze, 
> >
> >Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

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