[ibogaine] If you dose yourself, here is what you should do

Sandra k windforme at graffiti.net
Mon Feb 24 18:26:45 EST 2003


Sandra here,

I work for Marc as the screener and evaluator for the therapy and I have a few comments to make myself:

I think the biggest issue here is one of syntax. I agree that Marc should perhaps not speak in such absolute terms (especially when offering advice to anyone who is not applying to the ITH) because as some on this list have mentioned, some people will do whatever seems easiest and pehaps not take the precautions and advice into serious consideration. Desperate people do desperate things. However, I do think Marc has been (aside from what has been said on this list (emails can be so lacking in depth and context), careful with our clients. It is also my job to do whatever I can to ensure that the person undergoing therapy has a well grounded understanding of the possible risks (we have a consent form as well which i explain in depth to applicants). I am sure that our facilitators know this also. 

It is true that I do get applicants who may potentially lie about, attempt to cover up, or don't know about their medical history, so when in doubt I speak to their doctor. That's the best that I can do. If the information is not consistent or is in question at all (even just by my own intuition), I will reject their application for treatment. 

We are trying to help people here, and yes there is risk but we do what we can, while we can. We hope to gather as much data as possible to make this subject clearer (not exactly an easy thing to accomplish though). In my personal opinion we should keep our administrations and our advice to those whom we (at least) are able to screen properly. 

By the way, I don't think Marc 'needs' to take Ibogaine. I myself will take it as soon as I have some time (I'm too busy screening applicants at this time) as I am interested in the nature of this plant and what it has to offer. I do not take this lightly, I have experimented with many potent psychoactives in my search for connection to the plant world and have found that all of my explorations if done with intention, preparation and precaution (set & setting)have been (albeit powerful and ass-kicking in some cases) extremely enlightening. It may be a different substance (ibo) but all psychoactives have their risks. As when I take these substances myself, I attempt to inform, question, and evaluate with our clients. It is this knowledge with which I approach my job and I take it quite seriously. This as far as I know is the best possible approach that can be taken given the circumstances.

Keep in mind that Marc, myself, our facilitators and other project consultants are a TEAM and so far, our work has been quite enlightening to us all, including our clients/patients. I can only hope and work towards ensuring that our track record remains this way...

As for Soren, I personally think you should take all that has been said on this list into consideration and not put yourself at risk without taking all precautions possible. This may include seeking an experienced facilitator such as Sara (and I think she's on this list) to 'at least' talk to beforehand...

Best wishes,

Sandra



  
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:53:00 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] If you dose yourself, here is what you should do 

> Marc,
> 
> I have some other comments for you about the subject
> but just saw this email.
> 
> "I don't believe I qualify for the
> criteria we have set out at Iboga Thgerapy House,"
> 
> That has nothing to do with nothing - as in you are
> using it as an excuse not to do it. Nothing is
> stopping you from doing it at home or doing it at the
> ITH, just change the rules. If you don't want to do
> it, say "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT". It is like the "I
> don't do drugs" excuse or someone else I know who is
> procrastinating about taking ibogaine, after a few
> "excuses" we talked (me knowing the answer before we
> did) and it is simple FEAR, nothing more, nothing less
> and that is the absolute truth. Another person was
> concerned about being tainted by the drug, under its
> spell... so I don't know that this person took it
> (wink, wink), and no doubt they did, NONE.
> 
> > that its to be used for individuals with
> > self-destructive drug dependency problems or
> > individuals with repetitive & self-destructive
> > behaviour patterns.
> 
> Funny, how many people with whatever excuses and the
> belief that they are not addicts... nothing is wrong
> with them... who took ibogaine, and saw and understood
> AND it was very different than anything they expected
> or believed ibogaine to be like. FYI, no, you didn't
> treat more people except for Mash - even in the
> Americas.
> 
> > However, one (Linette)  of our
> > two permanent facillitators has tried a full dose
> > with remarkable results about four weeks ago. 
> > 
> > No one has pointed out how IBOGA extract may be
> > unsafe, how this has been established? Five or six
> > deaths over 35+ years does not indict the Iboga
> > Extract.
> 
> Stop being so defensive, it is not an indictment
> against iboga extract or ibogaine. How is this, take
> water, too much water, you die, too little water, you
> die - same thing with oxygen, too much or in the wrong
> place, or maybe used by someone who is inexperienced.
> Everything has its own risks.
> You have not delt with many addicts (lol, I know you
> have) but you may have noticed a character trait, they
> often don't tell the truth (even to themselves) and
> don't follow instructions very well. Don't get me
> wrong, follow protocol/procedures and ibogaine is
> pretty safe stuff for healthy people but addicts often
> do not follow instructions, let alone "protocol"
> (yeah, right, get some ibo, get off on that and if it
> don't work keep a few bags handy...) and often are not
> very healty/had medical issues neglected or just don't
> know.
> 
> > Those deaths appears to be related to iboga
> > in conjunction with other unhealthy situations.
> 
> Absolutely!
> 
> > Similar to when pot and alcohol show up in a
> > coroner's report, the two are in the system, but the
> > cannabis did not in any way cause death. I have not
> 
> You are speaking from inexperience with the substance
> and are sadly very mistaken. People on ibogaine can
> just go,  poof, no "cause", just leave (as in their
> spirit/soul or whatever you want to call it got
> disconnected from their body, LOST, decided to leave).
> Again, I am not saying it and of itself is not safe
> when taken according to protocol - which includes NOT
> giving it to people who really have an interest in
> being on the "other side". Tell me Marc, why in this
> scientific world would MASH (a scientist type person)
> require people to sign a statement that they will come
> back (yes from the IBO WORLD...)? I mean protocol has
> been followed right? They give ibo in the strictest
> environment, all the medical equipment you could ask
> for, doctors and staff... but she needs them to sign a
> round trip ticket, that is very unscientific. Curious
> don't you think?
> 
> > seen a coroner's report hold iboga or ibogaine
> > responsible for any death.
> 
> People are still dead.
> 
> > 
> > 20,000 - 50,000 people worldwide must have
> > experienced iboga, iboga extract, Ibogaine HCI in
> > the last 35 years,
> 
> It is likely far, far higher than that. YOu got your
> various iboga religions, Bwiti and its flavors, the
> little people of the forest
> 
> > and I cannot see any evidence in
> > the science or anecdotal evidence that implicates
> > iboga in death or even in serious injury.
> 
> Then you missed it, I have.
> 
> Ibogaine is reasonably safe, even very safe stuff vs
> the alternative, but there are risks, protocol or not.
> YOU MUST also consider that (as I said) addicts do not
> follow instructions very well. You must consider that
> someday someone will come up allergic, PEOPLE's hearts
> sometimes stop (yes, this really happens and really
> doesn't get reported to the news or police). I mean if
> it is so safe, why the F do you learn CPR to give
> ibo??? If it is so safe??? Hearts stopping is not a
> safe event but yet you are ready for an un-safe event
> are you not? I know CPR, I have done CPR (it is easier
> when there are not bullet holes in someones chest, it
> kind of leaks), in fact I am as cool as it comes in an
> emergency, dead bodies, blood, broken bones, body
> parts, babies being born (both C-Section and natural)
> -seen em all, held em all, been there, done that and
> ibogaine makes me nervous, more the HCL (at higher
> dosages) than Indra at 5-6 max. 
> 
> So, in part I guess what I am saying is most of the
> time everyone will just come out fine and dandy but
> the mix of SOME DRUG ADDICT/Person with SOME SITTER
> who may or may not have followed protocol and have the
> emergency phone numbers handy or know what to do... is
> an unknown variable thrown into the equation.
> 
> > 
> > Good health screening protocols are very helpful and
> > we certainly do this at ITH. In fact, our screening
> 
> Yes, absolutely.
> 
> > protocol is probably more thorough than any other
> > facility outside of the doctor run facillities in
> > the West Indies, Panama and Mexico. 
> > 
> > I believe if an ordinary person follows our
> > procedures, an individual could very safely have an
> > iboga experience. This insistence that what I am
> 
> You are absoutely correct, "IF" and "ordinary person"
> come together to do such a thing.  FYI, I read
> somewhere that in traditional use of iboga (ritual
> doses which are very high) that death rate is 1:6000. 
> 
> > saying is 'reckless' sounds to me like the way
> > priesthood's insist they are the conduit to God,
> > that only they know 'iboga's' true power. That
> > individual autonomy somehow here is dangerous, and
> > that an elite class of practitioners is required. I
> > believe if you can get to a place like Iboga Therapy
> > House, thats the best option possibly. But if I were
> 
> Yes. My suggestion to (just) anyone seeking treatment
> is to see someone experienced with the administration
> of iboga, hopefully away from home, under controlled
> environment/set/setting... This is for a variety of
> reasons, one of which is safty, another is success. I
> see too many people "just take it" and fail, there are
> a lot that you can twist the right way or the wrong
> way during and just after doing ibo. Sure, it is going
> to detox anyone well enough, Joe Dickhead could pretty
> much (in relative safty) detox himself following some
> protocol and procedure. You say to move in a certain
> way but the addict/initiate will have no clue during
> the session how fast they are moving, they often
> enough "BOUNCE" up. This is not to say that some
> people I would feel comfortable with doing it
> themselves who have zero experience, depends on who
> they are and how seriously they take things. Contrast,
> an active dope fiend may not do so well following
> instructions but maybe a long term meth addict (with
> career, a couple nurses come to mind) who is tired of
> it will follow them closer and be more serious about
> it - the "junkie" vs the more stable person/addict,
> there is a difference.
> 
> For the life of me though I have a hard time with "the
> keys" to ibogaine. Be it a junkie or whoever, however
> they should have the opportunity to take ibogaine,
> even if they are not serious about it. I just can't
> hold back the medicine cause I think I know someone is
> not ready for it (unless it is a clear danger of
> course).  All you can do sometimes is give em a
> choice, tell them the rules and let them find their
> own way (learning experience sometimes on how not to
> do ibogaine...). 
> 
> > an addicted person far away from a place like ITH,
> > and I had a serious think about iboga, I would find
> > the risk very attractive viz. the potential
> > benefits.
> 
> Total agreement. Question, how many addicts do you
> know of that take medication (you know, like do not
> mix with alcohol, do not operate heavy machinery, take
> X quantity...) according to the very simple
> instructions on a script bottle??? There in lies the
> biggest problem with many addicts doing it themselves,
> they don't listen. 
> 
> Brett
> > 
> > Marc Emery
> > Iboga Therapy House
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp. 
> >   To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
> >   Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:49 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] If you dose yourself, here
> > is what you should do
> > 
> > 
> >   You hit that right on the button Marko!
> > 
> >   HAVE YOU EVER INGESTED A FULL DOSE OF IBO YOURSELF
> > MARC?
> >   I AM ALMOST 100% SURE YOU HAVE NOT!
> >   By observing you have not seen the deep
> > revelations.
> > 
> >   Under no circumstances should you iterate it is
> > safe for everyone.
> >   Everyone reacts differently, watch the advice you
> > give.
> > 
> >   Not trying to be harsh but I know I wouldn't want
> > to feel responsible for giving bad advice and seeing
> > someone hurt. I should hope you feel the same.
> > 
> >   Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
> >   www.ethnogarden.com
> >   ethnogarden at sympatico.ca
> >   Tel: (01)705-735-0540
> >   Fax:(01)705735-4332
> >     ----- Original Message ----- 
> >     From: Ustanova Iboga 
> >     To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
> >     Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:52 AM
> >     Subject: Re: [ibogaine] If you dose yourself,
> > here is what you should do
> > 
> > 
> >     Curtis,
> > 
> >     yes, sarcasm, that's exactly it!
> > 
> >     We've been through this shit some time ago, when
> > Carl N.W. advertised Indra 
> >     Extract (ooops, HIS extract) as the best and oh
> > and ah material to detox.
> > 
> >     Now this is repeating. Not only the
> > glorification of Indra (MARC wrote: 
> >     "You should use the Indra extract"). I won't go
> > into why Soren should use 
> >     Indra and why not rootbark or HCl or something
> > else... The problem here is 
> >     that someone who is experienced (btw, Marc, have
> > you ingested a full dose 
> >     of IBO, in any form?) doesn't give someone new
> > to IBO (who is seeking 
> >     deliverance and new life) a quality information,
> > but in fact says : This is 
> >     the best for you!
> > 
> >     Is it really?
> > 
> >     The same thing is with Sara's post on another
> > list. Let me paste it here 
> >     for those who are not subscribed to it:
> > 
> >     "I know a man who ended up in the madhouse
> >     After taking Ibo. alone,
> >     He stayed there for a month,
> >     He got the stuff from me; he said he had a
> > sitter,
> >     His health wasn't so good after all,
> >     If you like to do a treatment on your own, you
> > must know
> >     There are risks which are not worth taking,
> >     You like to take the easy way out but that
> > including a possible nightmare 
> >     or panic attack .
> >     Think about it.
> > 
> >     Sara"
> > 
> >     Now, think about it and read what's between
> > lines. And see that 
> >     one-sidedness of info. Oh, and don't forget that
> > Soren lives quite close to 
> >     Sara! And she is experienced treatment provider
> > and I see that with her 
> >     there are no possibilities of possible nightmare
> > or panic attack...
> > 
> >     Besides, Marc says: "Ibogaine extract IS
> > inherently safe..." And so is 
> >     rootbark. And HCl. But wait - is this true? Can
> > we be 100% sure of what 
> >     Marc wrote? Is he entitled to make such
> > statements? What are his 
> >     credentials? Where did he get info on this? Were
> > there scientific, medical, 
> >     clinical trials on humans (using that inherently
> > safe extract), or were 
> >     just some lab experiments on mice and rats
> > (using that inherently safe 
> >     extract - or was it IBO base, or HCl, or
> > something else??) I must have 
> >     missed this in research papers:  "In the 35 year
> > history of documented 
> >     iboga extract use..." Marc, can you please let
> > us know where to get these 
> >     documents? I'm quite sure that I'm not the only
> > one wanting to study this!
> > 
> >     No, Marc, nothing IS inherently safe, not even
> > IBOgaine extract. Nor milk.
> > 
> >     Nor life.
> > 
> >     And I hope that everyone will as soon as
> > possible understand that IBO is no 
> >     fun, that it should be treated with utmost
> > respect. That it can act one way 
> >     in one person, and completely another way in
> > another person... even though 
> >     it acted the first way in 100 persons... So,
> > Marc, what if Soren doesn't 
> >     get over it?
> > 
> >     Henk, it seems, forgot this for a moment ant
> > took IBO too lightly. Haven't 
> >     you learned anything from him????
> > 
> >     If you haven't, then I suggest that all of you
> > make a special URL wich will 
> >     advertise your IBO and your way of treating
> > people. You can use BIIIG 
> >     words, in many colours, you can even tell the
> > world that you Are THE Only 
> >     One In The World Who Knows EVERYTHING About IBO,
> > The ONLY ONE Who Can 
> >     Administer It Safely And Efficiently To Whomever
> > Reading..... I'm sure that 
> >     Patrick will gladly put this URL in the headers
> > of list E-mail... Or 
> >     wouldn't he?
> > 
> >     YOu can be sure that I won't appear there ;-))
> > 
> >     And another thing, regarding use of water when
> > getting IBO down the throat: 
> >     Bwiti say "L'eau tue l'Iboga"
> > 
> >     But some people, it seems, know better. After
> > all, who the heck are those 
> >     Bwiti? What do they know about IBO?? If they
> > knew anything, then THEY would 
> >     write about pharmacodynamics of IBOga!!
> > 
> >     ;-))
> > 
> >     Marko
> > 
> >     At 04:13 24.2.2003, you wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >     >I'm going to word what I say carefuly because I
> > don't want to offend 
> >     >anyone by accident and nothing I'm saying has
> > anything to do with the 
> >     >skill of doctors from one country or another. I
> > also want to make sure I 
> >     >put across what I mean to say, I have to give
> > this more thought then 
> >     >others who can write 50 paragraphs without
> > setting off any bombs, hi 
> >     >patrick ;-)
> >     >
> >     >I think what Marc does is very honorable bro.
> > Not only does he help people 
> >     >for free but he gives out and shares his info.
> > I don't see anyone else 
> >     >doing that as has been mentioned here before.
> >     >
> >     >I don't set out to knock anyone and think
> > everyone should get help in any 
> >     >way that is best for them but Marko posted a
> > message that was very 
> >     >sarcastic and full of Patrickisms and mindvox
> > quotes 'FoLloW the yELloW 
> >     >BrIcK RoaD' and mixed upper and lowercase and
> > all this and I don't know 
> >     >what he really meant. What I read was sarcasm.
> >     >
> >     >As someone who dosed ibogaine on my own and am
> > much happier for it I think 
> >     >that some of what you are doing is just the pot
> > calling the kettle black. 
> >     >Mash may spread FUD about how nobody else knows
> > what they are doing or she 
> >     >knows more and maybe she does. But taking this
> > from your own web site, you 
> >     >do exactly the same thing.
> >     >
> >     >'There are individuals who advertise on the
> > internet and they might charge 
> >     >less for their treatment but you need to be
> > aware that they administer 
> >     >treatment in hotel rooms, have no formal
> > training in handling emergencies 
> >     >and might be reluctant to take a patient with
> > complications to the ER.'
> >     >
> >     >And followed by a stab as Mash without naming
> > her 'The Ibogaine 
> >     >Association is the most active program with the
> > greatest number of 
> >     >patients per month. Our goal is to provide safe
> > treatment in a comfortable 
> >     >environment, accessible and at a reasonable
> > price. There are no hidden 
> >     >costs with our program. Licensed physicians
> > with extensive experience 
> >     >administering ibogaine are constantly present
> > and supervising the 
> >     >treatment. Beware of ibogaine treatment centers
> > that talk negatively about 
> >     >their colleagues, or use scare tactics to get
> > you into their program. Some 
> >     >centers are overly expensive, so listen to what
> > they say with skepticism, 
> >     >as the advice from these "experts" will not be
> > objective. There are other 
> >     >treatment providers advertising on the Internet
> > who do not administer 
> >     >ibogaine under medical supervision. Our main
> > interest is to help as many 
> >     >people as possible, by making this new
> > treatment financially reasonable 
> >     >and by providing adequate medical care.'
> >     >
> >     >Bro I have no doubt you all want to help
> > people, but you don't do anything 
> >     >different from Mash. You run a business and
> > detox people with ibogaine. If 
> >     >a gram costs less then $200, where does the
> > other $3,000 you want for 
> >     >treatment go to? Mash can explain where $10,000
> > or more goes with all the 
> >     >people she hires and extra costs she has, but
> > what is it that you do?
> >     >
> >     >I know people who have detoxed with you all,
> > you aren't putting people on 
> >     >heart monitors so how do you even know if
> > something is happening unless 
> >     >they tell you?
> >     >
> >     >Telling people that if they do not take
> > ibogaine under medical supervision 
> >     >they should not take it, is not right. Warning
> > that they might be better 
> >     >off with it is something else. And this message
> > has nothing at all to do 
> >     >with doctors from one country or another one,
> > it is written to reply to 
> >     >exactly what you said and exactly what you
> > advertise on your web site 
> >     >which is by the way the only ibogaine web site
> > running commerical ads.
> >     >
> >     >Peace out,
> >     >Curtis
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:37:35 -0800 Randy
> > Hencken 
> >     ><randyhencken at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >     > >Marc,
> >     > >
> >     > >I am glad to see you share your advice and
> > experience.  However,
> >     > > I feel that
> >     > >it is irresponsible to assure someone that
> > they "will be OK".  We
> >     > >all know
> >     > >that ibogaine is not inherently safe, hence
> > ibo related fatalities.
> >     > > Marko's
> >     > >posting on the other list is honest.  If you
> > do ibo on your own
> >     > >you are
> >     > >taking your life into your own hands.  Weigh
> > that risk carefully.
> >     > > At the
> >     > >same time, if you are a street drug user you
> > are taking your life
> >     > >into your
> >     > >own hands.  Using street dope is probably
> > equally as dangerous as
> >     > >doing ibo
> >     > >without experience.  But if you re not doing
> > street dope and you
> >     > >are in a
> >     > >treatment program (i.e. methadone) it is best
> > to proceed to ibo
> >     > >with
> >     > >patience and caution and to eliminate as many
> > risks as possible.
> >     > >
> >     > >Complications can happen, be willing and
> > prepared to call for emergency
> >     > >help
> >     > >if necessary.  Better yet do ibo under
> > professional care.
> >     > >
> >     > >Randy Hencken
> >     > >Ibogaine Association
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >>From: MARC <marc420emery at shaw.ca>
> >     > >>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >     > >>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> >     > >>Subject: [ibogaine] If you dose yourself,
> > here is what you should
> >     > >do
> >     > >>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:02:31 -0800
> >     > >>
> >     > >>You should take 4,500 - 5,000 mg of INDRA
> > extract.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>Take a 300 mg. test dose in gel cap at hour
> > 0. Do not eat anything
> >     > >for the
> >     > >>12 hours previous to taking the test dose.
> > Drink plenty of water
> >     > >and herbal
> >     > >>(but not green or black tea, and certainly
> > not coffee, caffeine-
> >     > >oriented
> >     > >>drinks, or alcohol) tea in the 12 hours
> > prior to the test dose.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>Have a bedroom to lie down in, completely
> > dark. All windows should
> >     > >be
> >     > >>covered. Get comfortable pajamas on. DO NOT
> > USE incense or any
> >     > >burning item
> >     > >>(no fireplaces, candles, frying foods, etc.)
> > at anytime during
> >     > >the iboga
> >     > >>experience.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>You cannot fix, use or take any drug
> > whatsoever for the 24 hours
> >     > >prior to
> >     > >>test dose (excepting insulin and essential
> > non-addictive substances
> >     > >not
> >     > >>related to your iboga).
> >     > >>
> >     > >>Have a bottle of water at your side with a
> > mouth sized opening.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>At 0 hour plus 30 minutes, take 100 mg. of
> > Gravol.
> >     > >>At one hour, if you feel normal,
> > comfortable, and feeling 'slightly
> >     > >up',
> >     > >>then the test dose confirms you have no bad
> > reaction from the liver.
> >     > >>At one hour, ten minutes, take a series of
> > gel caps for the remaining
> >     > >dose,
> >     > >>in your case 5,000 mg., so the remaining
> > dose is 4,700 mg, in about
> >     > >8 - 10
> >     > >>capsules. Drink at least one and a half
> > glasses of water to take
> >     > >those
> >     > >>capsules.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>If you are overweight and you eat crap alot,
> > you will have nausea
> >     > >more
> >     > >>upsetting than a thin, wiry person, but as
> > long as you hydrate
> >     > >(your
> >     > >>sitters
> >     > >>job is to browbeat you into drinking water
> > after a vomitting),
> >     > >the
> >     > >>vomitting
> >     > >>is not a negative, it just is, and its part
> > of your detox. Most
> >     > >of my
> >     > >>patients don't throw up after Gravol, but
> > the big guys do, especially
> >     > >the
> >     > >>crack cocaine users. You are probable OK,
> > but your stomach tissues
> >     > >are soft
> >     > >>in all likelihood, so you are more likely to
> > respond to the high
> >     > >acidity of
> >     > >>the iboga extract.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>You'll get through it.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>You'll need to get up and pee about 2 - 6
> > times during your visualization
> >     > >>period, which will begin at Zero Hour (test
> > dose) plus Two hours,
> >     > > thirty
> >     > >>minutes. You must get up like a robot, a
> > very slow robot, otherwise
> >     > >you
> >     > >>will
> >     > >>experience ataxia, which, your body is going
> > to be off balance,
> >     > > and like
> >     > >>sea
> >     > >>sickness, the motion of your head should be
> > stiff and slow, otherwise
> >     > >you
> >     > >>will bring on further nausea. This is
> > important, MOVE SLOWLY if
> >     > >you have to
> >     > >>move.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>You will visualize for 6 - 30 hours. You
> > may, at the time, not
> >     > >really know
> >     > >>what the hell is going on, you won't be able
> > to talk about it while
> >     > >it is
> >     > >>happening, in fact, it will only start to be
> > clear in about 72
> >     > >hours, long
> >     > >>after visualization has passed. However,
> > your withdrawl and feeling
> >     > >of
> >     > >>addiction will be over at ZERO hour plus
> > three hours. It will seem
> >     > >like a
> >     > >>miracle to anyone observing, but you will be
> > deeply into the iboga
> >     > >world
> >     > >>and
> >     > >>unaware of those earthbound things, even
> > that you are no longer
> >     > >addicted,
> >     > >>no
> >     > >>longer going through withdrawl (if you
> > follow my instructions,
> >     > >your main
> >     > >>dose begins after you are aware of opiate
> > withdrawl happening).
> >     > >>
> >     > >>Anything more I can tell you, if you would
> > like to know.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>Marc Emery
> >     > >>Iboga Therapy House
> >     > >>
> >     > >>----- Original Message -----
> >     > >>From: "Søren Løvfelt" <isl46726 at image.dk>
> >     > >>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >     > >>Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:04 PM
> >     > >>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Marc
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> > Hi Marc
> >     > >> > Thanks for responding to this.
> >     > >> > My bodywight is about 85 kilo,and the
> > last 2 months,I have been
> >     > >on 60 mg
> >     > >> > Methadone,and some Oxycodone,100-200 mg a
> > day,and 10 mg Valium.
> >     > >> > Thank God I went down from 100 mg
> > Methadone,to 60,but I dont
> >     > >know how
> >     > >>much
> >     > >> > this will help.
> >     > >> > I know Methadone is a different animal
> > than say Heroin.
> >     > >> > Thanks for your help Marc.:o)
> >     > >> > Soren
> >     > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >     > >> > From: "MARC" <marc420emery at shaw.ca>
> >     > >> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >     > >> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:47 PM
> >     > >> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Hello......
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > > Soren, give me your body weight,
> > frequency of drug use and
> >     > >drugs used
> >     > >>in
> >     > >> > the
> >     > >> > > last two months. You should use the
> > Indra extract. I will
> >     > >tell you
> >     > >>what
> >     > >> > you
> >     > >> > > can expect. An experienced sitter would
> > be great, but if you
> >     > >have
> >     > >>someone
> >     > >> > > who knows what to expect, who is alert,
> > you will be OK.
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > Marc Emery
> >     > >> > > Iboga Therapy House
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link
> > to get
> >     >FREE encrypted email:
> > https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
> >     >
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> > Program:
> >    
> >
> >https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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