[ibogaine] how the right views the anti-war movement.

A. Artze Associates aaasj at coqui.net
Mon Feb 17 15:56:46 EST 2003

Let's see, in WWII, the French lasted about twenty minutes with the Germans, we came in and assisted them while half became the Vichy government full of yellow stripped backed bastards! We lost over 150,000 of our men on French soil. The school where the signing of the surrender of the Germans today does not even have a sign posting the historical value of that building. 
Between the Vichy French and the Neo Nazi Germans, who both sell to Saddam equipment to make WMD, had you gone simply along with the USA, Saddam would have capitulated! Now he is clamoring a win just as he did when the UN forces stopped short of 30 miles outside of Baghdad during the Gulf War.
This is not a preemptive strike we are about to give Iraq on or about March 1st, it will be a week of darkness and we own the night! It will be the continuation of the Gulf War, that the bastard Saddam had claimed success to! Then went over ten years of Saddam stroking the UN and went about his business building up WMD with the help of the French and the Germans!
Should Iraq use the WMD to defend himself, then it will be a terrible way to find out that we were right, terrible because there will be lots of collateral damage as we will level Baghdad, something that could have been avoided if the yellow bellied French would have had the balls to side with the USA!
You don't seem to know your history! At the end of WWI, Germany conceded to disarm and never to arm themselves again. Hitler (a Saddam look alike!) just went about his business arming to the teeth, and the League of Nations did nothing, just as the UN and NATO are doing today - wake up!
We made a big mistake in being loyal to the French in Viet Nam, Ho Chen Min, loved America and for what it stood for. He tried to get close to us, but out of loyalty to the Damn French we did not. He was not a Communist, but a Nationalist, he was drawn to Russia because he needed assistance in his fight to unite his country, we blew it there!
Sorry JT, but this is one war we need! After 9/11, if the Muslims want peace (Islam in Arabic) then they better earn it. The other Middle East Arab countries do not want us in Iraq, we have a nasty habit of installing Democracies, a form of government that threatens all of the Dictatorships there!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joshua Tinnin 
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 4:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how the right views the anti-war movement.

  > Saddam is a menace equal to the combination of Hitler and Stalin and needs to be taken out.

  Hogwash. Pure bullshit.

  Sorry, didn't mean to drag out a political thread, but seriously, that's unmitigated government-sponsored propaganda you're spewing, and it's even more hyperbolic than they are about it. Britain, and later the US, carved up what was left of the Ottoman Empire into the puppet nation-states that exist today in the Middle East. Now, the US is considering doing it again, no matter that the hegemony never ended, and that our efforts to support "freedom" included bringing Saddam to power, helping to form Al Q'aeda and supporting the fundamentalist Muslims against the Soviets, which later became the Taliban. Oh, and the fact that we also supported the Shah of Iran for a while, until it was no longer convenient. Meanwhile, our government says that the democratically-elected Chavez in Venezuela is illegitimate, and has been involved in attempted coups to overthrow him, as well as instigating and engineering anti-Chavez protests. He's not illegitimate in the least, but he does not kowtow to the US at all, which is frustrating oil barons who want a piece of it. But Uribe in Colombia is a different story, and we've been more than happy to support his chainsaw paramilitary to straighten things out, you know, in the name of freedom. Well, actually, it's because there is a pipeline there which is crucial to the US and to Colombia's military, which has been attacked by rebels repeatedly to hit the government and foreign investors the hardest where it hurts most, in the pocket. The government takes care of things down there by hiring brutal mercenaries to terrorize the rebels and any civilians who are around them or who happen to be in the way, all with tacit US acceptance, of course. And this is all just the tip of the iceberg.

  You might want to read some of what Mark Twain wrote about the US' intervention in the Phillipines, which was much more similar to the current situation than it is to WWII and Hitler, or Stalin. We were nation-building there, too. But, just to be clear, it's never a good idea to trust your leaders when they are waging pre-emptive war in the name of "freedom," because that's never the real reason. It's imperialistic. If you don't believe me, I can point you to Perle and Wolfowitz's vision to re-shape the ME, which is driving current policy. We might as well be Britain talking about Africa, but nobody seems to be thinking about the last Empire, amd how it badly bungled things (which helped hasten its demise). And most of this change of perspective from a Republic to an Empire stems from Woodrow Wilson's foreign policy, one of an imperialistic power, acting with the supposed benefit of the world, but really acting purely out of self-interest (which is to be expected).

  And, every Empire falls eventually, even the US. Dubya's just getting us to the end that much faster.

  - jt
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: A. Artze Associates 
    To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
    Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 2:07 PM
    Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how the right views the anti-war movement.

    On or about March 1st, we will attack Iraq. It should not be referred to as "preemptive" strike but rather the continuation of the Gulf War, as they did not adhere to their promises when we kicked their butts. This is deja vue, the useless League of Nations after WWI when Germany agreed never to rearm. The League did nothing and WWII came about. Saddam is a menace equal to the combination of Hitler and Stalin and needs to be taken out. If the UN has not got the balls, then they are in the same league as the useless League of Nations. The Vichy French, and the Neo Nazi Germans be damned! They have short memories!
    Should Iraq use WMD against the US, it would be a terrible way to show the World we were right, terrible because we will wipe out Baghdad from the face of this Earth!
    If the Muslims want a Jihad, by God that is what they will get. So that one day my great grand son will ask his father, daddy, what's a Muslim?
    Now kindly take my name off this useless chat line or whatever it is called!


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: preston peet 
      To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
      Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 4:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how the right views the anti-war movement.


      "The real patriots are standing up in the shadow of the United Nations today
      and saying Give Peace a Chance" Rev. Al Sharpton, speaking at the NYC Peace
      Demonstration, February 15, 2003
      "Martin Luther King once said that if mankind doesn't put an end to war, war
      will put an end to Mankind." Harry Bellefonte, speaking at the NYC Peace
      Demonstration, February 15, 2003
      New York Joins the World on the Road Towards Peace-
      Defying Court Order, Hundreds of Thousands March in NYC, Joining With
      Millions World-Wide Who Today Said "No War!"
      by Preston Peet
      for DrugWar.com
      February 15, 2003
      Adam and Jeremy want Bush to pursue Peace
      If the city officials of New York really were trying to stop people from
      marching against war on Iraq by refusing to issue a permit, and thought
      having U.S. District Judge Barbara S. Jones rule against allowing a march
      permit to be issued would stop marchers, they failed miserably. With figures
      ranging from a 100,000 guesstimate from an NYPD spokesperson, to attendee
      estimates of around 750,000, people young and old, of myriad nationalities,
      races and creeds, filled the streets of mid-town Manhattan today with a
      veritable carnival of civil disobedience for peace. Ignoring the
      court-ordered ban on marching, protestors exercised their Constitutional
      right to public protest, marching, telling Bush and the world in firm, loud
      voices that not all US citizens are blindly buying into any proposed
      pre-emptive strike and a subsequent war against Iraq, and will not be cowed
      into silence.
      Read Article and See Photos at above URL

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Vector Vector
      To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
      Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:50 PM
      Subject: [ibogaine] how the right views the anti-war movement.

      this is so sick. but read it. the other side speaks.


      > Volume 1              Thursday, February 13, 2003              By
      > David
      > Horowitz
      This is the first issue of The War Room in its
      > new
      > non-partisan format, now published under the auspices of
      > www.frontpagemag.com. The War Room is a tactical guide for
      > conservatives
      > and centrists in framing issues that divide our nation and affect its
      > future. We are now engaged in a war that may last a generation,
      > against
      > international foes whose main weapon is terror and whose principal
      > targets are civilians. In these circumstances it is vital that a
      > bi-partisan consensus be formed on defense of the homeland. One
      > requirement of this defense is greater unity on the home front. It is
      > important that domestic issues, which have the potential to divide
      > Americans, be resolved in a manner that strengthens rather than
      > weakens
      > the nation. The divisive issues in American politics are those that
      > tend
      > to divide us along the fault lines of class, gender and race. The War
      > Room believes that these fault lines do not run along a
      > Democrat-Republican bias but are the product of a political left that
      > is
      > hostile to the national foundations. The War Room believes that the
      > values of American individualism and democracy, rooted in the
      > Founding,
      > form the basis for our national unity and are the essential elements
      > of
      > our national strength. *

      > The "Anti-War" Movement
      > Is A Bigger Problem Than You Think
      > For over a year our country has been at war with a terrorist foe that
      > can infiltrate our borders with weapons of mass destruction. We are
      > divided in our homeland on two fronts. Reasonable people may disagree
      > over tactics and priorities in fighting this war -- for example over
      > which hostile agency or state to take on, and at which point in time.
      > There have been critics of the Administration's war policy from both
      > the
      > Democrat and Republican side of the aisle. But these critics share a
      > common concern for the defense of this country, and in the end they
      > support our government and our nation against its foes.
      > Not so the other opposition to the war, which is a radical movement
      > with
      > Marxist roots, whose origins go back to the Vietnam War and whose
      > political base is American universities. This opposition to the war
      > on
      > terror manifested itself within weeks of 9/11 with aim of opposing an
      > American military response to the al-Qaeda attacks. Its agendas are
      > not
      > "pacifist" and are not inspired by dissatisfaction with any
      > particular
      > American war or policy, but with the American system itself. It is a
      > movement which cannot be appeased and which is willing to collaborate
      > with America's enemies.
      > Every major "anti-war" demonstration to date, including the
      > demonstrations on the Capitol Mall in October and January has been
      > organized and controlled by a self-styled Communist group called the
      > Workers World Party, and its front "International A.N.S.W.E.R." The
      > figurehead of this organization is former Attorney General Ramsey
      > Clark
      > and its organizer is Brian Becker, a member of the secretariat of the
      > World World Party. The WWP is aligned with the North Korean Communist
      > regime and along with its figurehead has supported the North
      > Vietnamese
      > torturers of American POWS, the Ayatollah Khomeni regime in Iran,
      > Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein.
      > At the Mall, the speakers - all selected by the Workers World Party -
      > denounced America as an imperialist aggressor and "the axis of evil,"
      > and called for "regime change" and "revolution" in the United States.
      > An
      > imam from a Washington DC mosque led the crowd in chants of "Allahu
      > Akbar," which is the cry of the suicide bombers as they blow up
      > innocent
      > civilian targets. Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 suicide
      > bombers,
      > gave these instructions to his team: "When the confrontation begins,
      > strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world.
      > Shout,
      > 'Allahu Akbar,' because this strikes fear in the hearts of the
      > non-believers."
      > John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee
      > was
      > a featured speaker at the Workers World Party "peace" rally, as was
      > former Democratic Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. Representative
      > Charles
      > Rangel, the ranking Democrat on the House Ways and Means Committee
      > sent
      > a letter of support. In a sister demonstration in San Francisco, also
      > organized by the Workers World Party, California State Senator,
      > Democrat
      > John Burton, told the protesters that the President of the United
      > States
      > was "full of s___" and was "f---ing America."
      > So appalling were these demonstrations that older members of the left
      > disassociated themselves from this movement in articles that appeared
      > in
      > leftwing magazines like Salon.com and the L.A. Weekly (the latter
      > article was written by David Corn, Washington editor of The Nation).
      > On February 15, an anti-war protest will be held in New York City,
      > organized by a new group called "United for Peace and Justice." This
      > group is headed by Leslie Cagan, a Sixties Marxist with a long
      > history
      > of supporting Communist causes. She was a member of the Venceremos
      > Brigades organized by Cuban Intelligence. She was a member of the
      > Committees for Correspondence, a faction of the Communist Party USA,
      > and
      > she is co-chair of the National Network on Cuba an organization whose
      > purpose is propaganda and political support for the Castro
      > dictatorship.
      > Cagan has warned that, "If marches do not work, we will escalate. We
      > will have to do things to disrupt the normal flow of life in this
      > country."(NYTimes, 2/04/03) This threat of sabotage should not be
      > taken
      > lightly given the history of more than 1,000 domestic bombings during
      > the Vietnam War.
      > The agendas of the so-called "peace movement" are pro-Communist and
      > anti-American. Its organizers have worked with America's enemies in
      > the
      > past and are continuing to do so in the midst of this war. This is
      > the
      > very definition of a political "fifth column." Honest dissenters and
      > Americans concerned about the future of their country should take a
      > hard
      > look at these protests and those who support them.
      >   _____
      > THE WAR ROOM is a guide to strategy and tactics for conservatives and
      > centrists in framing issues that divide our nation and affect its
      > future. Email subscriptions are $30 for one year or 48 issues. Click
      > 2w/input?can_ref=738> here to subsribe now! David Horowitz is the
      > author
      > of several books, including Radical Son, The Politics of Bad Faith
      > and
      > Uncivil Wars.

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