[ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk
Wed Jun 26 13:00:01 EDT 2002

Thanx for sharing Linda. And especially for your love and kindness.

Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

-----Original Message-----
From: lhutcherson [mailto:lhutcherson3 at comcast.net]
Sent: 25 June 2002 23:41
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

Preston & Andria,
I, too have the hep c virus.  I also got it from my years of self abuse.
But I am claiming my victory now!  I refuse to "lie down" because of this
diagnosis.  I know God is walking with me.  As for depression, if you CLAIM
your spirituality, identify God in yourself, get a personal relationship
with Him, I swear, it will change your life.  PEACE is all any of us crave
in this world.  Everything we do superficially is merely a quest for Peace.
Let us stop all of this INTELLECTUALIZING about addiction.  Science
(man/woman) has manufactured all kinds of help eg. Ibogaine, methadone etc.
and we should use the gifts God gave us to help ourselves, but FIRST AND
FOREMOST make your foundation the One who Created You, and you can't go
BTW, I too, find that the lack of the energy that I once had can be
difficult to deal with. Working with a good doctor, and doing the
aforementioned things I said, keeping healthy ie. healthy diet etc.is the
way to go.  Don't be afraid.  You are not alone.
Love and Kindness
Linda Kay

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt <mailto:AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk>  
To: 'ibogaine at mindvox.com' <mailto:'ibogaine at mindvox.com'>  
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

Preston, I know this is 20 days later but I wanted to respond before
ANY chronic illness is goi9ng to make us vulnerable to depression; the thing
that's particular to HCV (as if you need to be told) is the constant
struggle foir energy that comes with it, and this makes us even more prone
to depression. (well, it certainly does me anyway, not that I'm sure it's
the HCV that's wacking my energy out!)
Also, if you are put on Interferon/Ribavirin, there is a risk of depression
as a side effect, and potentially even suicide/suicidal ideation - well,
that's what docs and others have seen and written about. I'm no0t sure that
if u do suffer from depression, it's an indicator that the HCV has really
set in, tend to think it's the other way round
C ya

Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

-----Original Message-----
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet at nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2002 17:00
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

on the issue of Hep C- Does it really cause depression? I've read somewhere
that this is a serious warning sign, when depression sets it, that this is a
sign that something is going on with Hep C. Is this true to anyone else's
knowledge? Hep C is one of those repercussions I've left myself from years
of self abuse, and I'm afraid it is affecting my mood lately in ways I can't
seem to deal well with, if it really is resulting from the Hep C.
Anyway ideas anyone? (sorry Patrick, don't mean to let you down, but I'm
trying to cheer up...)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hattie <mailto:epoptica at freeuk.com>  
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>  
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c

on 5/28/02 1:43 PM, Christina Kester at poppy_1974 at hotmail.com
<mailto:poppy_1974 at hotmail.com>  wrote:

Are you new to the list? If so there were loads of postings on hep c and
ibogaine a few weeks back. If you have not seen them then email me and I
will give you all the info.


> I am planning on detoxing fro methadone using ibogaine this summer. i've
> hep c for less than two years, have no detcteable viral load, and my liver
> enzymes have remained in the normal range for the past year. Do you think
> have anything to worry about?
> Poppy
>> From: Kerry Dawson < kdawsonais at yahoo.com <mailto:kdawsonais at yahoo.com> >
>> Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com> 
>> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
>> On the technical side of this conversation I admit you've lost me. I
>> understand liver function and Hep C but am clueless when it comes to
>> "Cytochrome P450" and what any of that means.
>> I enjoy reading your articles about addiction because you do such a good
>> job of spanning the range of objective observations to the very personal.
>> Which I thought was very important in what you expressed. It was honest
>> describes the desperation of people who are trying to become unaddicted.
>> When someone doesn't care if they live or die and are willing to play
>> russian roulette at even the chance to escape their addiction, I think
>> says volumes.
>> On that note I'd like to wish condolences to any addiction treatment
>> personnel or doctors who have ever dealt with you, that would be one of
>> nightmares. Here's a guy who is much smarter then I am, understands
>> addiction but is sitting in the room with me because being smart isn't
>> enough to get out of his addiction. How do I reach someone like that.
>> I still don't have that answer but all of this makes for fascinating
>> reading. Thanks to all of you!
>> Kerry Dawson, AIS, CAP, MAC
>> "Patrick K. Kroupa" < digital at mindvox.com <mailto:digital at mindvox.com> >
wrote: On [Wed, May 22, 2002
>> at 02:13:25PM +0100], [Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt] wrote:
>> | Jon
>> |
>> | Which country are you in?
>> John is Dr. Pablo, he lives in the country of the mind, in a state of
>> insanity. Which is to say, most of the time, 20 yards away from where I
>> am. Or Miami even, to put it another way.
>> | You may be referring to Liver Function Test and FBC (Full Blodd Counts)
>> but
>> | as far as I'm aware these will not give you the full mckoy on the state
>> of
>> | ones liver. Hattie, don't get confused. Send an e-mail to Mat Dolan,
>> | wrote the HCV Handbook (my potty buddy and he really is my teacher on
>> HCV)
>> | cos he has to be updated as a result of re-writing his book each 2 yrs
>> so
>> Look... Alla youz can beat nomenclature, details, and theory, into the
>> dust, then sift through it sideways searching for . But it's
>> pretty simple:
>> Yes, to the best of my knowledge at this point in time, it is not
>> to accurately and exactly test liver function without a biopsy. However,
>> this is going off on a tangent. If you run the standard, simple blood
>> tests which include a liver panel, and nothing comes up really wacked,
>> then you are more or less -- probably -- okay.
>> This isn't the be all, end all, of testing, because it's a really good
>> idea to test for the prescence of a gene (CYP2D6 [Cytochrome p450 2D6])
>> for the protein which metabolizes ibogaine. There is a certain percentage
>> of the population which does NOT have the wildtype gene.
>> Ibogaine can be metabolized without it, usually the answer is a much
>> dose. However. If someone has Hep C -- in an active/uncontrolled state,
>> lacks this gene (how you would go about testing for it in other parts of
>> the world, I do not know... I just know what happens here. It should not
>> be impossible.), you dose 'em with a "low" dose of ibogaine to be safe
>> the end result can still be a dead body, because the ibogaine isn't being
>> metabolized/metabolized fast enough, and then you wind up with shit like
>> Q-T prolongation and torsades.
>> And if you wind up with these situations in an environment where there
>> isn't anyone present that knows how to prevent them from dropping dead.
>> Presto, you gots a dead body.
>> In short, lots of super-bad THINGS can happen.
>> None of these are Great Secrets. All this shit has been published
>> already.
>> - - - - - - - - -
>> To summarize: You need roughly half your liver still going. (presuming
>> this is the problem, and your heart is "okay" and nothing else is really
>> wacked the fuck out.)
>> - - - - - - - - -
>> Now... Here's the great big grey area...
>> What's "good enough" ... and how do you define that.
>> Medicine isn't very exact, there are an awful lot of very healthy people
>> who drop dead for all sorts of reasons -- other than being shot, OD'ing,
>> or getting hit by a truck -- and there are an equal or greater number of
>> people who have a Fucking Towering Mountain of shit wrong with them, who
>> really should have dropped dead decades ago, and they keep right on
>> living.
>> To drop into the subjective: when I wanted to dose with ibogaine, I lied
>> about every fucking thing imaginable, regarding what I was or was not
>> taking, and the doses I was on, because I was afraid nobody would even
>> attempt to detox me from all that shit (200mg methadone + roughly 2
>> grams of heroin + 12mg xanax, on an average day, to just get "normal").
>> All my tests are within "normal" ranges, whether due to karma, luck,
>> genetics, or simply because I'm still indestructible and not old enough
>> have suffered direct physical consequences from all the stupid shit I've
>> done to myself.
>> However... Were my tests NOT normal. Would I have shrugged, said, "oh
>> well, I can't do this," and moved on to another possible treatment? FUCK
>> NO. Tried 'em all, none worked, this is what I WANT/NEED. I do not give
>> a fuck what your inclusion/exclusion criteria is, for me this is my life,
>> I am on a kamikaze run, and if it kills me, who gives a shit, it's not
>> like I'm living now anyway; just my time to go. Oh well.
>> What I'm saying is; if my tests were in any way abnormal, I would have
>> simply engaged in some creative art, printed up some Just Super Fine
>> Perfect results, and if you wanted to receive those results from a doctor
>> or a lab; well hey, no problem, I will access the switch that their
>> are on, and for that entire afternoon or day, every single call going
>> or out of those offices, will go to ME instead. You're not gonna stop me,
>> I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid, I need this, I don't care what you
>> want or don't want.
>> And, I'd posit there are a whole lot of people who would do same, or
>> something similar.
>> This is called desperation.
>> To conclude this rambling in some cohesive manner: I absolutely think
>> people who are in the "grey area" should have the chance to get their
>> lives back. However, there are a whole lot of variables there to deal
>> with... I would strongly suggest that SOMEONE who knows what to do in the
>> event of a medical emergency, is present, when you're dosing anybody who
>> fits this criteria... If they had a few pieces of useful equipment
>> onhand, this really wouldn't hurt either.
>> Because if they drop dead, oh well, their problems are over, better luck
>> in your next life. But yours have just begun. You now have a dead body,
>> and depending on what part of the world you're in, it's quite possible
>> will face murder or manslaughter charges -- no matter how good your
>> intentions were.
>> - - - - - - - - -
>> Having said all that, what would I personally do... I would have at the
>> very least a basic emergency kit onhand. I would hope for the best, and I
>> wouldn't touch anybody who gave me a really negative vibe... This may be
>> stupid, but I'm not dead, or in prison, and every single time the alarms
>> went off in my head really loud, despite no other evidence to support my
>> feelings... I have been extremely fucking grateful I listened, "hey
>> Patrick, it is TIME to bail, and get the fuck out of this situation/place
>> 'cuz something really bad is right on the horizon, and approaching very
>> rapidly."
>> Beyond that, it's very hard to say... Is this person all fucked up and
>> acting weird because they're smoking crack, going through withdrawal,
>> or because there's something seriously wrong with them... Getting that
>> answer without medical testing borders on the impossible.
>> Because, as I may have mentioned... People who are desperate, tend to lie
>> an awful lot. Especially when they have very little left to lose.
>> Patrick
>> ---------------------------------
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