[ibogaine] ibogaine q's

Brett Calabrese bcalabrese at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 23 14:36:18 EDT 2002


--- Michael Synergy <synergy9_11 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I enjoy reading this list if for not other reason
> then it's much less depressing then any other
> addiction oriented list I've ever read before. 
> 
> I also do my best to look up answers to questions I
> may have and try not to post every thought that
> crosses my mind here without first doing some
> homework. 
> 
> The following questions which I hope someone can
> answer are not explained in any way that I can
> either find or understand on any of the ibogaine
> sites. Not org, net, co.uk and if there is some
> other source of ibogaine info I am missing please
> tell me, because those three are about it each in
> their own way.
> 
> Someone mentioned that doing MDMA after ibogaine was
> a dangerous idea. Why is that? And how soon after is
> after. A week a month, 6 months?

Ibogaine reacts with all kinds of STUFF. I couldn't
say (been a long time) why not with MDMA but I believe
one woman was given MDMA during ibo and died. One
thought is serotonin is toxic, ibogaine boosts the
hell out of serotonin levels (happy camper levels) and
MDMA dumps all that serotonin stored up at once (that
is one reason you get high on it). Too much serotonin
is bad, don't want to fry too many receptors at once.
Just a thought. Then nor-ibogaine sits in the body for
months, also increasing serotonin. I would guess that
taking MDMA after doing ibo will increase its effects.
How long till it is "safe", well as far as I am
concerned MDMA is not exactly safe stuff, would be
much safer if you actually knew it was MDMA and not
some other junk or mixed with something else - which
is frequently mixed in. I do recall something about
having wild reactions to some hallucinogens, could
have been MDMA after doing ibo - try searching the
ibogaine at ibogaine.org archives.

> 
> The much larger question I have I don't think has an
> answer. That question is based in part on reading
> the entheogen review article which was reprinted
> here.
> 
> Do any of you know how ibogaine really works? Does

After writing a response (below) maybe my question to
you is "what do you mean by works?" - as in on what?
Ibogaine is an anti-biotic, an aphrodesiac among other
things, it is a tonic, mood enhancer, remedy for
barren women, it can block withdrawal (for lack of a
better description), lower the need for sleep,
unscatter the mind, actually do (for lack of better
description) repair work on brain structures... It
also may do any number of things it does in a person,
some combination or none at all. It is different
depending on if someone is a male or female, what
species they are and for that matter the day of the
week.

continued

Well, the answer is sort of. No one knows exactly
how/why ibogaine works, not me, not Howard, not Glick,
not Mash, not nobody. Yes, there are contradictions,
even doing what appears to be the same tests sometimes
yield different results. Let me point out one thing in
your efforts. It is nice to know but knowing or not
will not change the fact it does work.  There is a lot
of work on the sites you already mentioned as to why
it seems to work, and yes it is contradictory in some
places. How is this, it works (just picking  a number)
dozens of different places, they all contribute, block
one or a few (eg with naltrexone) and ibogaine still
works, hummm. Does that mean ibogaine does not work at
opiate receptors because when they are blocked, it
still works, no - it works there but will still work
if it is blocked, just not as well.

> anyone? Because the impression I'm getting from
> reading all the material I could find on those three
> sites as well as doing a search through Patrick's
> writing for Heroin Times does nothing but bring up
> theories all of which have been disproved over time
> or aren't complete. 

Sorry guy, that is all there is, theories though I
disagree that they have all been disproved. Ibogaine
certainly effects the dopamine and serotonin systems,
even modifies dopamine response to drugs, this is well
documented. 

One thing you must understand is that NO ONE knows
what causes withdrawal, not exactly, they have
theories and such. So, you cannot say (or that is a
real hard question) is how ibogaine works to stop
something (withdrawal) when we don't know what causes
withdrawal in the first place.

Maybe you are looking at it with the wrong question.
Your question is why does ibogaine work, well maybe
your question would be better put, why does ibogaine
work on these smaller pieces of the puzzle. Eg, it
does alter dopamine response to drugs, we pretty much
know what it does and how. Why does ibogaine improve
mood after doing ibo, why does ibogaine seem to do
resetting of the brain. Maybe we don't have complete
answers but are closer with those than why it stops
withdrawal. Another example (different drug) is
Salvia, we don't even know where in the brain it plugs
in (totally unknown) but it doesn't stop it from
plugging in wherever it does and tripping one out.
> 
> 
> It looks like nobody is exactly sure how ibogaine
> works despite real scientists working with it for a
> decade or more now.
> 
> I know that this could be applied to most
> hallucinogens and yes I know ibogaine isn't
> technically a hallucinogenic drug.
> 
> The key difference looks to be that whatever any
> hallucinogenic drug might do to your perceptions, it
> will not get rid of your addictions. Ibogaine gets
> rid of all of them all at once. That's a little
> spooky. What sounds even more spooky is that review
> saying that ibogaine re writes genetic expression.
> Re writes it to what? What exactly is it doing to
> the brain to re arrange everything in one dose?
> 
> It would worry me more if it wasn't for the fact
> that most of you who have done it look like you're
> not in wheelchairs or walking around with brain
> damage and whatever might be said about using the
> term 'crazy' saying different or not normal is a
> better description.
> 
> Is there a reasonable expection that somebody is
> going to figure it out in the next 5 years, 10
> years, 20 years? Because as far as I know, even now
> they still haven't done so with LSD.
> 
> This is a exact quote from Patrick and I understand
> it's a joke but it doesn't look like it's that funny
> or far from truth.
> 
>  
> 
> 'Seems like a good theory, theories are important.
> Like fer instance without theories you couldn't hold
> Ibogaine conferences and go up on stage and point at
> little charts and graphs, and write monographs and
> things. Saying, "it seems to interact with 90% of
> the brain, for the most part we dunno what the fuck
> it does, but these guys in the Gabon have been
> making tea outta this stuff for hundreds of years
> and it doesn't seem ta kill most of 'em, a lot of
> the time. So just eat the shit, and then somethin'
> simply magical happens," doesn't sound quite as
> impressive.'
> 
> I'm not writing this letter to make chit chat, I'm
> trying to sort out if it might not be a safer idea
> to dose with the ibogaine extract from indra over a
> period of time instead of taking one large dose of
> hcl all at once. I know a lot of you are very blase
> about this, but I'm not in the same place. If I saw
> half of what Patrick and Dave in particular talk
> about and act comfortable with I would be more then
> ready for a mental hospital. Ibogaine aside Patrick
> is or was dosing LSD at 5 and 10 mg levels which I
> can't find at the moment but did read somewhere on
> this list I think. 5 or 10 mg is 50 to 100 times the
> normal dose level. 
> 
> What I'm getting at is a lot of you are in a
> different place mentally, where you accept all this
> and even enjoy being in different realities. I think
> you crossed the boundary from solving your drug
> problems to religious experience and kept on going. 
> 
> I do not want to do that. At least not yet. I only
> want to detox. From all I have read and I have done
> my best to understand the material online, none of
> you really know how or why ibogaine works. Most of
> you accept all these different realities as fact.
> Most of you are not troubled by the fact that
> ibogaine can kill you and I have to think that if
> Dr. Mash is so set on hooking people up to heart
> monitors and equipment and what else I don't know,
> it's because she either knows something or has seen
> something which scared her a lot, or she wouldn't be
> doing all that. 
> 
> I don't want to kill myself or see lights and eyes.
> I only want to detox.
> 
> Is there any reason past personal preference that I
> would have better results from hcl instead of indra
> extract?
> 
> Thank you for reading this far to those who have.
> 
> _Synergy_
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
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