[ibogaine] was dream, now is- 'they' won????? Puh-leeeze!

Carl Nyblom-Waltenburg ibogalab at hotmail.com
Sat Jun 15 14:36:19 EDT 2002


WE won,goddammit.See:
   http://www.whitehouse.org/DOF/salvation-act.asp
                                                   Carl



>From: "preston peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>Subject: [ibogaine] was dream, now is- 'they' won????? Puh-leeeze!
>Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:15:55 -0400
>
> >We chanted, we marched, we sang...and then the blood ran in the streets
>while everyone else decided they'd rather watch television.<
>
>Hi Rick,
>     Please speak for yourself, and not me, which is what I get from your 
>letter here.
>
> >The greatest lesson of Woodstock (for you dear Rick-P) was that if you 
>give (some) people a few
>chemicals, and their MTV, they'll stay the hell out of the way and
>willingly wallow around in mud and their own filth.  The revolution
>already happened...the other guys won by pulling the wool over our eyes,<
>
>Same comment as above, please speak for yourself. Personalize this, and 
>please do not include me in your personal view of how you think things are. 
>There's no wool over my eyes, thanks kindly. And if you turn MTV on on my 
>tv, you'll be in trouble.
>
> >They won by the insidious means of giving
>us what we wanted, without us ever realizing that they created the
>desires for which we clamored.  They won by turning us into mindless
>consumers to various and sundry life-sucking commodities. <
>
>"They" did actually isolate the much more potent alkaloids, but this does 
>not tell me that nature fucked up by creating the natural whole plants that 
>mix so well with my own natural chemistry, nor that someone else 'created' 
>in me that most natural of desires, that of altering my consciousness. Then 
>"they" turned us into mindless comsumers of the idea that we are abusers 
>and addicts for using the plants that nature, (or god if that's your 
>perspective), gave us for myriad uses.
>
> >They won by
>allowing us to wrap ourselves up in shrouds of inebriation and by
>providing the tools we needed for self-immolation.  They won by keeping
>from us the knowledge that slavery can easily be mistaken for freedom. <
>
>"They" haven't won anything, hence the continued war on those like myself 
>who never surrendered to their propaganda and lies, blaming problems on my 
>'drug' use, (and other non-socially sanctioned behavioral traits, like 
>critically thinking), as opposed to allowing me to treat my problems by 
>self medicating with the substances I was drawn to, without heaping huge 
>stinking piles of prohibitionist merde on top of me because of my choices, 
>leaving me only the option of alkaloids, instead of the entire plants as 
>they were intended to be used perhaps by whatever power created them in the 
>first place. Seems a bit conceited to tell nature we can't use the plants 
>she supplies us as we choose, that she is wrong to have grown them, that 
>humans somehow created the desires to use those plants. Bah!!!!!.
>     To quote my publisher Dan Russell's book 'Drug War', (chapter : White 
>Hope - p 143) "The jive term 'habit-forming' will be applied to my 
>'non-medical' request, as if garlic, salt, oregano, and coffee weren't 
>equally habit forming. The AMA, (June 1, 1994), 'discourages and condemns 
>illegal drug use and encourages physicians to do all in their power to 
>discourage the use of illegal drugs in their communities and to refuse to 
>assist anyone in obtaining drugs for nonmedical use.'...
>...This is not corruption. Todays' Journal of the AMA is a relatively open 
>public health forum. This is genuine unconscious culture-centric bigotry, 
>with just a touch of commercial self-interest. The good doctor 
>automatically assumes Papal authority to decide for me what is and is not 
>healthful. The AMA, apparently my legal guardian, tell me that my personal 
>herbal curanderismo is 'self-medication' and will not be tolerated. That 
>is, organized medicine literally, legally, owns the medicinal lillies of 
>the field."
>
> >They won by pouring us wine that tasted like knowledge, which they
>mass-produced from the grapes of ignorance.<
>
>Gee, exactly my point above, other than for the fact that I don't 
>personally feel beaten, or defeated.
>
> >They won by creating within
>us an indifference to war and peace and an indifference to the suffering
>of our fellow man.
>The revolution already happened...guess you were there after all.<
>
>Rick, I don't know you, just seeing you post for the first time here 
>lately, but what are you talking about? Are you yourself indifferent to war 
>and peace and the suffering of our fellow man? Because I for one am 
>definitely not indifferent. What revolution exactly did you take part in, 
>and how dedicated were you to the ideals that prompted you to first take 
>part in that revolution? And is it possible that now that you are part of 
>the System, (you are the one treating drug 'addicts', no?), you don't any 
>longer find a need to rebel, since the system has taken you in with open 
>arms? That you now more feel a need to conform to 'their' lies and 
>propaganda, and feel a need to tell those of us still engaged in 
>'revolution' that we're wrong, we've lost, that it'd be better for us if we 
>simply conformed?
>     This would be really depressing, if I realized I was living my life in 
>surrender. But I'm not, so it's not. To each their own.
>Please, speak for yourself next time. As you obviously are not even 
>remotely close to seeing things from my angle, as near as I can tell, don't 
>include me in your "They won" estimation. They may have permanently beaten 
>you, but not me, thank you very much.
>Peace,
>Preston
>
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>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Rick Venglarcik
>   To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>   Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 7:39 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I had a dream
>
>
>   The revolution already happened...I guess you were just too high :)
>
>   We chanted, we marched, we sang...and then the blood ran in the streets
>   while everyone else decided they'd rather watch television.
>
>   The greatest lesson of Woodstock was that if you give people a few
>   chemicals, and their MTV, they'll stay the hell out of the way and
>   willingly wallow around in mud and their own filth.  The revolution
>   already happened...the other guys won by pulling the wool over our eyes,
>   selling our addictions to us in the guise of counter-culture
>   individuality and rebellion.  They won by the insidious means of giving
>   us what we wanted, without us ever realizing that they created the
>   desires for which we clamored.  They won by turning us into mindless
>   consumers to various and sundry life-sucking commodities.  They won by
>   allowing us to wrap ourselves up in shrouds of inebriation and by
>   providing the tools we needed for self-immolation.  They won by keeping
>   from us the knowledge that slavery can easily be mistaken for freedom.
>   They won by pouring us wine that tasted like knowledge, which they
>   mass-produced from the grapes of ignorance.  They won by creating within
>   us an indifference to war and peace and an indifference to the suffering
>   of our fellow man.
>
>   The revolution already happened...guess you were there after all.
>
>   _____________________________________
>   Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
>   Hampton Roads Clinic
>   2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
>   Hampton,  VA  23666
>
>   Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
>   Fax:  (757) 826-2772
>   Cell: (757) 270-9839
>   _____________________________________
>
>
>   >>> vector6 at space.com 06/13/02 06:44PM >>>
>   Great stuff. So when does the revolution start? Or is that happening
>   here :-) .:vector:.
>   ___________________________________________________________________Join
>   the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>




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