[ibogaine] C.R.A.C.K Original statement and more comments

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk
Mon Jul 29 09:47:12 EDT 2002

yES bRETT, if THEY CHOOSE IT. I think a point PK made was that these women
are being offered a sizeable sum to agree to it, which is kinda immoral
given what we know about the craving needs of aCTIVE ADDICTS, NO?  In other
words, how much CHOICE is she making

When I was a21 yr old woman, strung-out to F, I suddenly found myself on the
street with the most monstrous man, giving a hand job for enough money to
buy a bag of dope. Is that the kind of CHOICE u r referring to? 

Wouldn't a better way to deal with this to persuade a young woman into some
kind of treatment by providing low-threshold care, thereby having the
opportunity to persuade her against having more kids given the state of her
health etc?

Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

-----Original Message-----
From: ascending at hushmail.com [mailto:ascending at hushmail.com]
Sent: 28 July 2002 07:17
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] C.R.A.C.K Original statement and more

I see no problem with this at all. It's not as if these future moms are
being herded into the sterilization pens.

As somebody who works for a living and has had their share of drug problems
I don't have any interest in paying for some crackwhore's kids being taken
care of when she keeps having them. I resent that. If you want to have kids
and ruin their lives and don't have enough common sense to know your a mess
that's your business and I feel sorry for the kids but it shouldn't be my
tax dollars paying for all that. 

Sorry but that's reality. In case none of you read anything except drug
lists there is this over population problem with the world, there is no
shortage of babies. None at all.

>> Who gets to decide who is worthy and who is not?
>The person getting sterilized, seems very reasonable
>to me. And for the money that they are likely to use
>for drugs, well that goes for the welfare check,
>pay-check or any other check they get their hands on.
>This is not forced sterilization, it is $200 (rebate)
>should someone choose to get sterilized OR (and you
>seemed to focus on the sterilization part) long term
>birth control.
>> When does simple drug use become reason enough to
>> sterilize mothers? 
>I don't see anyone being forced to do any such thing,
>no suggestion or hint of such - though really, I
>personally think there are cases where a person should
>be forcibly sterilized, at any age (eg, sorry MS 17
>year old but you had a child at 12, another at 14,
>another at 15, another at 17, you are unmarried, had
>all 4 children taken away because of abuse and your
>drug addiction and you are pregnant again...). But
>that is my "opinion" but maybe I am looking at it like
>MOM made her decisions about her life and shouldn't be
>allowed (at some point) to have her children suffer
>for her disease. Sorry but I just don't see a problem
>with someone taking the choice to be sterilized or use
>specific birth control methods as some violation of

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