[ibogaine] more on helping or killing

Brett Calabrese bcalabrese at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 28 19:14:08 EDT 2002


I'm off this thread.

Brett
--- Joshua Tinnin <jtinnin at pacbell.net> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Calabrese" <bcalabrese at yahoo.com>
> > --- preston peet <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> > > and my prior comments still stand, even though I
> do
> > > find myself, as I believe I've noted very
> recently,
> > > shaking my head when I see news clips of all
> these
> > > starving people around the world, people
> surrounded
> > > by 2, 5, 25 children, all theirs. What are they
> > > thinking?
> > > But personally, I'd rather help feed them and
> give
> > > them health care, (and myself too) than pay to
> >
> > But birth control isn't health care??? The only
> > choices are birth control vs drilling for oil,
> > building death machines and killing the
> environment???
> >
> > Problem with your theory (IMO) is more people use
> more
> > fuel/food/land/resources and strain the
> environment.
> > There is a simple fact we all live on the same
> petri
> > dish called earth, there is only so much to go
> around
> > and YES the death machines/killing environment
> (yadda,
> > yadda, yadda) need to stop. It might be a good
> idea to
> > help with the limited resources (not that they
> should
> > be limited, just that they are) to not breed new
> > addicts and focus those resources on the adults
> and
> > little ones that we already have.
> 
> Well, with that in mind, let's just round up all the
> addicts and sterilize
> every one of them.
> 
> BTW, starting with 2 people and assuming a 2% annual
> growth rate over only a
> 1,500 year period the population of the planet shuld
> be almost 16 billion.
> The truth is that the fertility rate of men in the
> US has dropped
> dramatically since the 1950s. This petri dish is
> rather like a fishbowl - we
> only reproduce to the point of sustainability. The
> "sky is falling"
> population explosion theory is a fallacy. Moreover,
> people in the US and
> other highly developed nations have *far less*
> children per capita than in
> less developed nations. Barring growth due to
> immigration, the US might even
> soon begin to see a decline in population growth
> very soon. Most predictions
> allow about 9 billion people by 2050. That would
> mean that the curve of the
> hyperbola of population is starting to apex and from
> there, fall.
> 
> Compassion must outweigh the "one less addict" or
> "one less child of an
> addict" thinking. It's a half step away from
> outright killing addicts.
> 
> Ridding the US of potential children of crack
> addicted mothers is a *very*
> small drop in the bucket. Sterilization for $200
> seems to be an extreme way
> to accomplish this goal.
> 
> Smart growth and fostering sustainability would
> alleviate far more problems
> due to limited resources than sterilizing
> crack-addicted mothers. Finally
> realizing and accepting our huge consumption rate in
> the US and doing
> something to change *that* will mean much, much more
> than the CRACK program
> could ever hope to accomplish, and nobody would have
> to be sterilized.
> 
> > NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT KILLING ANYONE (re the
> CRACK
> > rebate), no killing and you keep going off on
> KILLING
> > and sterilization as if it is being forced. You
> seem
> > to want to limit the choices addicts have in their
> > lives because of your beliefs - if someone wants
> an
> > abortion, birth control or sterilization, that is
> > their choice and CRACK is helping them with
> choices,
> > they are NOT making choices for the addict.
> 
> Offering them $200 is ridiculous. How about a home
> and a recovery program in
> exchange? $200 is a carrot.
> 
> - jt
> 


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