[ibogaine] more on helping or killing
ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Sun Jul 28 15:05:07 EDT 2002
never said I wanted to limit anyone's choices.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more on helping or killing
--- preston peet <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> and my prior comments still stand, even though I do
> find myself, as I believe I've noted very recently,
> shaking my head when I see news clips of all these
> starving people around the world, people surrounded
> by 2, 5, 25 children, all theirs. What are they
> But personally, I'd rather help feed them and give
> them health care, (and myself too) than pay to
But birth control isn't health care??? The only
choices are birth control vs drilling for oil,
building death machines and killing the environment???
Problem with your theory (IMO) is more people use more
fuel/food/land/resources and strain the environment.
There is a simple fact we all live on the same petri
dish called earth, there is only so much to go around
and YES the death machines/killing environment (yadda,
yadda, yadda) need to stop. It might be a good idea to
help with the limited resources (not that they should
be limited, just that they are) to not breed new
addicts and focus those resources on the adults and
little ones that we already have.
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT KILLING ANYONE (re the CRACK
rebate), no killing and you keep going off on KILLING
and sterilization as if it is being forced. You seem
to want to limit the choices addicts have in their
lives because of your beliefs - if someone wants an
abortion, birth control or sterilization, that is
their choice and CRACK is helping them with choices,
they are NOT making choices for the addict.
> subsidize Bush and friends' drilling for oil, or
> building death machines, or killing off the parts of
> the environment that we humans need to survive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ascending at hushmail.com
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 2:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] C.R.A.C.K Original
> statement and more comments
> I see no problem with this at all. It's not as if
> these future moms are being herded into the
> sterilization pens.
> As somebody who works for a living and has had
> their share of drug problems I don't have any
> interest in paying for some crackwhore's kids being
> taken care of when she keeps having them. I resent
> that. If you want to have kids and ruin their lives
> and don't have enough common sense to know your a
> mess that's your business and I feel sorry for the
> kids but it shouldn't be my tax dollars paying for
> all that.
> Sorry but that's reality. In case none of you read
> anything except drug lists there is this over
> population problem with the world, there is no
> shortage of babies. None at all.
> >> Who gets to decide who is worthy and who is
> >The person getting sterilized, seems very
> >to me. And for the money that they are likely to
> >for drugs, well that goes for the welfare check,
> >pay-check or any other check they get their hands
> >This is not forced sterilization, it is $200
> >should someone choose to get sterilized OR (and
> >seemed to focus on the sterilization part) long
> >birth control.
> >> When does simple drug use become reason enough
> >> sterilize mothers?
> >I don't see anyone being forced to do any such
> >no suggestion or hint of such - though really, I
> >personally think there are cases where a person
> >be forcibly sterilized, at any age (eg, sorry MS
> >year old but you had a child at 12, another at
> >another at 15, another at 17, you are unmarried,
> >all 4 children taken away because of abuse and
> >drug addiction and you are pregnant again...).
> >that is my "opinion" but maybe I am looking at it
> >MOM made her decisions about her life and
> shouldn't be
> >allowed (at some point) to have her children
> >for her disease. Sorry but I just don't see a
> >with someone taking the choice to be sterilized
> or use
> >specific birth control methods as some violation
> Communicate in total privacy.
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