[ibogaine] Eric, whomever, if you do decide to read this thro ugh, have 10...

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt AndriaEM at drugscope.org.uk
Tue Jul 16 14:51:17 EDT 2002

Woh Brett

Wher do you get the timne to write such long articulate, informed e-mails.

I'm afraid I only have one thing to say on this: FUNDAMENTALISM KILLS - ALL
Let's see the Islamic type, the drug war type - anyone wanna add anymore?

Andria E-Mordaunt 
Users Voice ed./John Mordaunt Trust 

MON & WEDS - C/O Drugscope,  32 Loman St, London, SE1 OEE, U.K 
0+ 44 (0)207 928 1211 Tel 
0+ 44 (0)207 922 8780  Fax 

andriaem at drugscope.org.uk 
or Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk <mailto:Usersvoice.jmt at drugscope.org.uk> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese at yahoo.com]
Sent: 16 July 2002 19:44
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Eric, whomever, if you do decide to read this
through, have 10...

--- Rick Venglarcik <RickV at hnncsb.org> wrote:
> Perhaps it boils down to this...Brett is intolerant
> with intolerant
> people

Pretty much.

> and Neuroskull has found a belief position
> that works at this
> particular time. 

Everything "works". When I was into religion, it
worked and when I did drugs, they worked too, depends
on at what.

> Having walked a similar road, the
> beliefs and opinions
> stated by Neuroskull are pretty consistent with the
> evangelical/fundamentalist Christian perspective. 

That they are better than everyone else and you should
join their club so you can be special to, Jesus loves
you yes he does and if you don't believe in him YOU
WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER. I got it, I got it.

> Historical
> Christianity holds to a certain unchanging system of
> thought. 

That they are right and you are wrong.

> Encouraging others to "stay away from Buddhism and
> other such heathen
> religions" is consistent with the belief system. 

It is also called "good marketing". The more fear, the
more believers who need to be "saved",  more believers
the more money and power I will have - got it, very

> Likewise, the term
> "heathen" refers to pretty much any "uncivilized"
> religion that doesn't
> recognize the God of the Bible, so the term used is
> appropriate.  

You forgot "irreligous and unenlightened" in that
definition... Also, "the unconverted", which means
everyone else but them. I could argue that a good
number of "good Christians" (or whoever) are
unenlightened  (uncivilized and a whole buch of other
words) and therfore heathens or is it that once you
got the "I believe in the God of the bible" you pass
GO, nothing else matters? Maybe we will grow past such
"appropriate" terms like we got past using the word

Guess I just know too many heathens that believe it is
the same GOD that they believe in, they just call it
by another name, written another language and
culture/understanding and maybe have their own "GREAT
FLOOD" story and rules about how to behave... Many
people who I know practice various beliefs in
different ways but they don't go around telling people
they practice evil because of their belief is
something non-Christian or Non-muslum or non-jewish
and there are people out there who think exactly the
opposite. I know people who think it is the be-all and
end-all to get into Amway and will toot and holler
Amway is the way and the only way. It is "those
people" that bother me, the ones that think I should
do it their way cause it is the only way and I am an
unlightened, irreligous, ignorant (or whatever) person
 if I don't... and don't forget they are better than
me (cause I am too stupid to understand). Now you
don't see me preaching to narrow minded, ignorant,
bigots we will call Christians (just for argument)
that they are unbelievers, heathens, going to hell
unless they believe as I believe, do as I do and that
their methods are the work of the Devil, now do you?
That wouldn't be nice now would it? So why should I
"tolerate" listening to them without sharing my
opinion? Who knows, maybe at least they will become
"enlightened" to the fact that it really pisses some
people off (and chases prospective good Christians

> Expressing a belief or opinion that holds to
> absolutes, does NOT
> necessarily make a person intolerant.  If they made

Funny how I was just reading a post by a good
Christian who was talking about the Bible saying "Love
thy neighbor", didn't say anything about tolerate

<necessarily make a person intolerant>

No, it doesn't but the belief or opinion might.
In any case your definition of tolerate is somewhat
narrower than mine (and the one in the dictionary). 

> it a point to drown
> you out and stifle YOUR expression, that would be

How about tolerate "To recognize and respect (the
rights, beliefs, or practices of others)". Right, they
"recognize and respect" those heathen beliefs - that
is exactly how it sounds to me...


a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions,
practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs. 
b. Opposed to the inclusion or participation of those
different from oneself, especially those of a
different racial, ethnic, or social background

It certainly sounds like they excluded me from their
GOD club (they have an exclusive).

When you call someones belief or religious practice
"evil" that isn't tolerance. When you think they are
less than you are because where they are from, the
color of their skin or their beliefs, that is bigotry.
Most of the "tolerance" I have run across by
fundamentalists is they don't want to hear it, there
is no "opinion" there is only their way.

> intolerant.  Likewise,
> if you were discriminated against due to your
> religious beliefs, that
> would be intolerant.  Jesus was tolerant, but he

Oh and you think I can go off and marry one of their
daughters without a squeel or take a job over a good
Christian (and I am specifically talking about people
who think they are better than other groups because of
their beliefs/color/whatever)

> still called the
> religious leaders of the day a brood of vipers.

Nothing changes...

>  He
> was also willing to
> wash feet and eat with the rabble.

Good judge of character.


> In certain matters I hold to absolutes and will
> express them as so, but
> I'll listen attentively to what you say.  I might
> even argue against
> what you believe.  You might actually help me change
> some of my own
> beliefs.  Whatever the case, we can still go down to
> the deli and break
> bread together.  Perhaps this is Neuroskull's
> position as well. Perhaps
> not.  He'll catch up somewhere down the road. 
> So
> kiss and make up.
> _____________________________________
> Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
> Hampton Roads Clinic
> 2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
> Hampton,  VA  23666
> Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
> Fax:  (757) 826-2772
> Cell: (757) 270-9839
> _____________________________________
> FN:Rick Venglarcik
> TEL;WORK:(757) 827-8430
> ORG:HNNCSB;Hampton Roads Clinic
> EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:RickV at hnncsb.org
> N:Venglarcik;Rick
> TITLE:Therapist I
> Suite C;Hampton;VA;23666;US of A
> Venglarcik=0A=
> 2236 W. Queen St., Suite C=0A=
> Hampton, VA  23666=0A=
> US of A
> Venglarcik=0A=
> 2236 W. Queen St., Suite C=0A=
> Hampton, VA  23666

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes

More information about the Ibogaine mailing list